Kill the pointless faction specific AP mine.

It is really not. The click is very distinctive compared to all other sounds in the game. You should learn to listen for it.

Alright well discounting the entire basis for me accomplishing the "impossible" is founded on me telling you that the delay is about half a second (that you ignored at first but now accept) and that it isn't precise though you accept this measurement and try to use it against me lets see.

This is one where I had to point out (again for someone in this thread) that I don't like the PPA. I don't even have it unocked on any of my vehicles as a pointed out before. I also had to remind you NC don't have PPA or the CM. I guess you forgot. There is no way this thread was a response to the PPA. That's one.

Then you did this seemingly forgetting Pounders and an AV MAX weapon and Scattercannons are an AI MAX weapon. I had to remind you of the completely different classes of weapons. Or would it have been correct to let you get away with saying the Nova(a shotguns) outperforms the Decimator (a rocket launcher), not saying that it is true but it is completely unrelated to anything. That's two.

(You also missed the entire point of me comparing TR weapons to equivalents and I had to spell it out but whatever)

Then there is what you said above where the BB and PM beep which if you have ever encountered one you wouldn't place the sound as being a "beep".

Fourth would have been about the wounding range but I didn't know you counted running into kill range as escaping wounding range.

So there you go. I'm not asking for a lot. Just a debate with well informed people. If you want to inform yourself and come back I don't mind but don't ask me to be your BS detector when you can easily do so for yourself.

The good ol' KPU graph argument. "Lies, damned lies, and statistics." Let me demonstrate.

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=1&weapon2=13&weapon3=19

HIGGLES PLS NERF FORCE BLADE! OVERPERFORMING!

As for the claymores, maybe the TR are just placing them better? Sorry, but I smell l2p.

Go home drunk midgets, you're drunk.

Of course TR are placing them better, their perfectly designed to sit behind cover and blast a choke point, while the other mines require you to guess where they're going to run AFTER they ran past the choke point, otherwise you'll just get a wound and not a kill.

PEOPLE OF THE FORUMS!
Leave Clay alone.
But buff Betty and Proxy to be fair!

I enjoy my BB's
The only thing I would actually want from them is maybe some camo, even though they are lit, but I would want MORE BB'S please.

Then maybe you shouldn't put them directly next to the doorway. What would be smarter is for you to place them just a little bit farther away from the wall adjacent to the door, making the sorry SoB to trip the thing run directly over it, assuming they turn the corner. If they don't, the mine would still probably kill them because it's farther away from the wall, thereby increasing the surface area in which it kills.

Okay, I can get behind this. Remove the lights and bring the timer down from .5 to .30 or .25. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with el Claymore.

Indeed. Plus, why nerf something and remain with horrible mines, when we can leave the enemy alone and get better stuff?!

What I've been trying to say, but I just keep getting slammed with personal attacks.

What? first you say that TR is defending more, which means that more mines will be placed, then you say that their are less claymore uniques.

As for your example, yes, with only 116 users, then Nova will perfom better, however, Claymore has 3000+, so that's not really going to come into play. Also, your comparing the KPH of a stock (Mauler) to that of purchasable weapons. Of course, Mauler, with half the average BR, its going to perform worse.

This isn't and has never been a nerf/buff thread. Regardless if you buff the BB and PM you aren't really changing anything. TR will always have a special niche weapon and NC and VS will just have a carbon copy of eachother's weapon.

The way to make things right is to even out the three and make them all unique or make them all the same. Or we keep things relatively the same and distribute the arsenal and preform a minor tweak to the Claymore so people can't stand right on top of it without taking damage.

Asymmetrical balance for only 1 faction does not work. It's taken years and still there is no balance to this exclusive asymmetrical balance. I'm just being a realist here.

The only strong point of ANY AP mine sare the friggin dorrways cause only a blind or completely careless inept player won't see either the glowing lights or standing claymore.

The difference is only the claymore actually works in the only spot you can actually get people with them.

The ONLY other purpose for AP mines is tossing them into a group, and planting a claymore on the edge is only a tiny bit different.

Are you kidding me? I have been slammed with personal attacks way more than you have. Go back to sarcastically calling me "wonderful all-knowing being".

Well you don't see TR/VS running around with a 200-167 damage LMG, and the NC don't have a 143-125 damage LMG ether. There you go, NC has something that the TR/VS don't and it has worked out just fine.

Show me a TR/VS LMG that is identical in all ways but aesthetics that NC doesn't have. You keep missing the point completely.

If you put a mine out in the open, then the chances of getting a kill are very low, no matter how big your explosive radius is, not to mention the fact that players will take more varied paths, maybe only in the outer radius, which won't get you a kill. Also, its pretty much pointless for area denial. Also, if that were the case, the BB and PM would be closer to Claymore the KPH.
Anyways, TR SMGS aren't underperforming by much.
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=28000&weapon2=29000&weapon3=27000
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=28001&weapon2=29001&weapon3=27001
Hailstorm is even overperforming by a small margin, easily withing margin of error, but still not underperforming.

Thanks for wasting our time. Those guns are completely different. Are you going to need me to spell it out for you?

These guns have very little differences to them except for the odd man out
GD7-F=Serpent but not Lynx
Blitz=Sirius but not hailstorm
Rhino=EM1 but not Pulsar
TR Max=VS Max but not NC max
And I'm sure that there are a few examples missing, but my point is that there is already asymmetrical balance in the game so I don't see why there is such a big deal about TR having claymores and NC/VS having proxy mines and bouncing betty's.