Kill the pointless faction specific AP mine.

Perhaps I'm 2/3 the player. At least I know what I'm talking about. You may have fooled these folks but IThrowPoohPooh knows better. I play on Connery too and will be looking forward to meeting up with you. Guess we'll have to see who is the better player then. See you around. Watch your corners and don't get careless.

The amount of claymores I throw down shall increase as well this week. It's gonna be a good week.

You apparently have no grasp of the difference between sidegrade and carbon copy. I'll leave that for you to figure out on your own.

lol nope. Your play style is based on planting Claymores. Even if you do get a cheap kill you will likely not even be there. Your K/D is practicaly .66 without CMs. Keep it up tough guy.

All that I'm trying to say is if you get rid of the faction differences, your pretty much getting rid of what makes this game different. If you want to go play around with claymores, feel free to join TR, and if you like BB or PM, join the NC or VS. I mean, wouldn't it have been kind of lame if when they revamped the lynx they just made a clone of the Serpent and the GD7-F? The differences give each of the factions identity and if the CM is really out performing the other two, then perhaps they may need a slight rebalancing. But the question is, why can't we just balance them to be just as effective as each other without taking that identity from the TR?

Just to make something sure:
Can enemies see the glow of VS/NC mines? I've seen many VS mines but I can't remember any glow. Does graphic settings affect it? Running my game on "High". I would really like to have some screenshots of VS/NC mines by some TR player (or VS taking pic of NC mine and vice versa).

Wow. You're arguing with someone over the internet. Nobody here is "tough". Your own anger is going to get your thread shut down, just like Frostiken's.

Nothing to see here people, just report and move on.

You do realize that your calling out a BR-30 for having a average KDR, which doesn't even matter to much for the casual player. And the AP mine is just as important to the engineer as is the turret and tank mines and builds on the class as a whole.

Just going to ignore people obviously trying to derail this thread from now on. I'd rather be playing the game than arguing in circles with people.

If you want faction differences where is your post demanding a faction difference between for NC and VS? They have none to speak of but I slightly different collection of pixels. Every example you have cited shows 3 different guns all different from each other in different ways. Pointing that out has no applicable use here.

It doesn't matter if you somehow balance the VS/NC equipment to TR levels (which has been tried and I'm going to say it is possible). You still have to create a uniqueness for each or you are showing TR favoritism as being the only exception in the entire game where one faction gets a special toy but nobody else does.

Who cares how many factions have what. it makes no difference.

The claymore was the worst for a long time so they were getting screwed then. There is only so many ways you can make a mine. You won't always get everything you want on one faction.

What do you want a 3rd mines to be. They have explosion and directional. What else could they possible do with a bomb.

If it's out performing the other two mines, then buff the other two instead of needlessly removing claymores or just giving them to everyone, because TR get to keep their mines as is and NC/VS get stronger, more capable mines that you can't just run past and survive, which if it was the case (although in my personal experience with them is not) then they'll need to be fixed.

To correct myself I meant to say I don't think it is possible to balance out a 180 degree arc mine with two 360 degree arc mine. It has been tried and tried and tried. I honestly don't see how it can be done.

Okay so try and follow my logic here: Imagine SOE announced a new item for all three factions. Like an air mine or something. You throw it up 30-40 feet in the air and It's going to trigger when an aircraft flies close by.

-Okay so the VS are going to get one that doesn't have any indicators and is hard to see, explodes the instant it detects an aircraft and explodes upwards (lets says 100meters with a 40meter high damage radius) where an aircraft is most likely going to be.

-Now the NC/TR are also going to get one but it is going to be the same between them. It glows a bit, giving it away, gives fast moving aircraft a free pass most of the time and does is less deadly because of a shorter high damage range (still 100meters but with a 20meter high damage radius). Except it explodes in all direction hurting aircraft even below its flight ceiling. Only difference is they glow the faction's color.

Now the NC/TR might not need one that explodes downwards because nobody flies that low and they understand smart placement but they have one anyways. There is nothing they can do about it but complain on the forums. VS basically get a free pass at a lower flight ceiling but NC/TR have to be extra careful and either alternate their play styles in different airspaces or run the risk of running into a deadlier VS air mine and just fly lower where they are more effective at attack ground units.

So basically while NC/TR are banking on VS pilots getting careless and slowly flying into their killzones VS just get to sit back and watch players, no matter how fast they fly, get caught in their AA mine nets like flies to a spiderweb. It's only a matter of time before those careless people start to wise up and take reasonable precautions for NC/TR mines like flying fast or above a certain limit while anyone wanting to take percautions against VS AA mines just gets told they have to run a special AA mine detecting implant or just assume they are always going to blow up once they descend a certain amount because they are much less forgiving by design.

Now do NC/TR get to complain about how bland their item is or do they have to wait for balance patches that may or may not work at ever solving anything? If they make complaints they get some lights taken off but they obviously can't increase its killing power or otherwise what is the point of the VS item?

If you were NC/TR you would probably want the other mine but hey if you do then well you're going to ruin faction identity.

Does that sound remotely right that the VS just got special treatment all of the sudden? I wouldn't think so.

-------
tl;dr
So my argument in a nutshell: Is it fair to asymmetrically balance all the factions relatively well and then give one faction a sudden faction trait that is basically more faction specific items than everyone else? No.

ES RL TRs is the worst right now.

They are lots of things that have small differences getting everything perfect won't happen every time.


Yes we could wipe out all ES stuff and make all the faction the same and the balance would be easier if that is all that is important.

I want to maintain faction differences but on an even scale. Having one faction be the more-different one does not support the idea of asymmetrical balance as a model.

Also if we have 2/3 similar items floating around suddenly balancing them becomes: 'well we either have 1/3 of the items be overpowered and have a lower chance on average that someone in the game dies to that item or we have the 2/3 item do better and more people get subjected to it through more use causing more people to complain about it and get it nerfed back down.

1/3 is the nominal position to have in that situation, still isn't fair though.

That doesn't mean anything. It's just means they only had 2 different ideas for mines but 3 teams.

What is the difference if 1 faction has the worst version. 1 faction has a middle version and 1 faction has the best version.

VS 2 have the same and one has one that is better or worse.

Someone saying you have no experience with mines is not a personal attack. You have no experience and your stats are proof. I got moderated and I guess I deserved it for comments that were unnecessary. I'm going to say I don't agree whatsoever with your argument and that you haven't shone even the slightest propensity of using Prox Mines as part of an overall strategy in your game. And that's fine. Most players don't but some of us do. Throwing a chart out there and saying it's OP because of the number of kills is like saying the Orion is OP because of the number of kills it has versus it's peers. I don't get into all that.

The Orion is part of a selection of weapons available for the VS HA. They have every right to use the weapon to it's fullest potential regardless of the whining heard in the forums. It's not your fault it's effective and doubly so in the hands of an experienced player.

At some point there has to be some skill involved with placing a mine in order to get a kill. My stats are a prime example. Knowing base layouts and known routes that enemies will flow in and out of, purposely denying the enemy access to certain areas, and herding them into others for tactical and strategic reasons are all part of being a good Engie and helping my team. You see it as FARMING and yet I see it as a normal extension of my Class to provide as much support via any method available to me and not just for the kill. Play the game however you wish and in a way that provides maximum enjoyment and entertainment. I know I will.

I should apologize for my remarks and wish you well. Although, I will keep an eye out and a fresh Clay just for you. Good luck to you Arsonix.

Show us on the doll where the bad AI mine touched you.

The 2/3 model doesn't work is my point. It hasn't up to this point and it is very likely it never will. We have tried balancing it out for years and it still doesn't work idealistically. It is just insanity to keep going this way.

Okay here is a better analogy I just thought up.

Another asymmetrically balanced game was Alien VS Predator.

The set up is Aliens, Marines, and Predators
Aliens and Predators are basically the exact same thing, they have different colors but everything else is the same. They just get guns that go pew pew that are all exactly the same except slightly different models.

Aliens on the other hand are completely different. They have interesting abilities like an Alien would normally have, can crawl on walls and ceiling and whatever and are generally more powerful.

Then the Marines and Predator teams get together and complain about how OP the Aliens are.

Suddenly being an alien is impossible and people stop playing and go to the winning teams. Now the game basically becomes a 2 team game and isn't as fun anymore. So the two teams get together and say the Aliens can be OP again.

Suddenly one team is now overpowered and it is either look the other way or kill the fun.

Who are you going to play as? Which team is going to get balanced more harshly? Who the hell is actually going to play that game?

2/3's model doesn't work. I'm just trying to avoid more stupidity.

You do realize you have contributed basically nothing to this conversation as a whole? You also continue this lie about saying have 0 experience when I do in fact have experience. I guess saying I have not even the slightest propensity sounds nice for someone who doesn't check their facts. Now I'm not the most skilled player with mines and I don't even claim to be, I'm not even Q4 yet but that shouldn't discount all my arguments on that sole basis. Moreover I'm not going to wait to reach a certain ratio of mine uses to kills to impress you. That would just be punishing myself.

Anyways the difference between my argument as a whole and yours is that I support mine with data and facts. I also don't exaggerate like you either. I don't think I have been accused of that yet, at least not validly. You can discount the evidence I brought up but first you have to debunk it. Which you havn't done. People have tried by citing grenades and knives showing statistical disparity and not 100% equality as disproving my data which it doesn't. If that were just true then no measureable statistic would ever be applicable and all balance judgments would have to be done completely blind. This game isn't perfect and can't played in a vacuum. You have to trust some sort of metric.

I delved into your stats and anyone can easily see your most deadly weapon in the game is a Claymore. You say you can replicate their effectiveness on another character of another faction but instead you have only replicated it on another character of the same faction. You say that you had another account where you did replicate such things but according to you it was hacked. How convenient. You basically have nothing to show for this claim that is the very basis of your argument.

Also I would love to know how you measure something being overpowered. Do you really not consider standing on top of your own Claymore as it explodes and taking no damage, not even the slightest bit as maybe being a little overpowered? Even when on the other person's screen you can clearly see that parts of their body are in the blast radius of the weapon? I would love to hear your response.

I can show direct corrolations between number of players using mines and number of kills and how when one number goes down so does the other along with it and it is somehow regarded as a fluke or magic of some sort (I don't really know nobody has told me yet). If there is some better way of measuring these things out I would like to know what.

You lack credibility, you are an exaggerator, and already have had a moderator tell you that you aren't being constructive. Do you really think you should come back and double down? Honestly you aren't doing your side of the argument any help by doing so.

I don't know what this argument has to do with a weapon being overpowered but if that is your defence against saying something is OP then nothing is OP based on that logic. Just by replacing a few words I could staunchly defend basically anything.

"The (pre nerf) PPA is part of a selection of weapons available for various VS vehicles. They have every right to use the weapon to its fullest potential regardless of the whining hear in the forums. It's not your fault it's effective and doubly so in the hands of an experienced player"

"The Heavy Assault is part of a selection of classes available for everyone. They have every right to use the class to its fullest potential regardless of the whining hear in the forums. It's not your fault it's effective and doubly so in the hands of an experienced player"

"The shotgun Infiltrator... The Banshee... The beta EMP grenade... The (insert item here)...

Yeah you get the point.

Coming from an Ex-CoD player I'm not going to deny this basic fact. Back in the day I called in numerous nukes in free for all death matches back in MW2 using the scavenger perk and claymores to ensnare people trying to remove me from a position where I was locking down sections of the map. It probably would have been a lot more impressive though if my 25 kill streaks weren't all augmented by plant and forget weaponry and I can still hear the voice of angry players in my headset accusing me of being a farmer.

According to them I was farming the same few lemmings who kept running into my CMs over and over while they were playing the more "skilled" way. They said I was more or less "noob stomping" and ending their games short for them and they didn't like that. All I could really say in my defense is that that is the way of the game and I just happened to be the more efficient person at killing dumb players. The argument itself means something and it is safe to assume at least some of the time they were correct.

It is not like I am not familiar with the play style and the hatred it engenders but it has some validity that is not worth denying in a competitive game.

Now just to be clear. If you have something valid to say then, by all means, say it if you feel the need. If you don't keep it to yourself or PM me. I don't think that is too much to ask.

So lets try to keep things more constructive. Moving on...

Sorry for missing your post earlier but this is what I can gather.

Enemies can see the glow effect on VS and NC mines. Graphic setting generally do not change the effect at all but it can be a bit harder to notice them on high settings due to all the extra glare, blur and bloom effects on your screen. I would also be more than happy to log in with someone and test some of these if they would like if they wouldn't mind testing some things with the Claymore for me that way we can have irrefutable documented proof of some of these things.

1) for the love of god can we keep some faction specific stuff?! When will you people be happy? When this game is some generic garbage like COD?

2) Faction specific mines mean that you can easily know exactly whether a mine is friendly or hostile with a glance, which would be lost with this and make mines 10x more frustrating.

I don't even understand why such things like this need a buff, all mines of all factions have killed me just just the same, what's the damage difference like 100-200? by the time i'm most likely to get into a room I am probably lit or even just nicked at by my shield , so i step on a mine im sure as poop dead when i step on a Vanu mine or Bouncing Betty , I get killed by mines all the time so i'm not understanding these outcries here. Claymores are weird too, sometimes they go off and don't even do damage to me at all!