Nerf the Claymore.

The price of better damage... and longer range... and no visible lights... and the exploit...

That is a red herring. It is in no way a problem in the actual game since the lights don't render until you are practically on top of the mine. If you did not notice it before then, you would not have seen it anyway. So the lights are a non issue. They do nothing for actual game play. BTW, the Claymores has lasers on them that extend beyond the actual mine itself.

Hahaha. Implying that putting down mines takes even the remotest sense of skill?

Let me prove you wrong:

The Claymore outperforms the Betty and Proxy at all BR, both high and low.

Let me also point out that the usage difference between the Proxy and Betty is roughly the same as that of the Betty and Claymore, and the Betty and Proxy still performs at an almost identical rate.

The Claymore is straight up overperforming. It is OP, plain and simple. Stop trying to defend your OP weapons.

Well, ignoring the laser beams that may or may not exist, there is a green light on the side that it doesn't explode towards ...

Give the Prox Mine more sensitivity, make Betty hop 1 meter upward.

I am! Haha. Well then, that makes it super effective.

My experience with mine placement stands, tho. VS/NC always sticking it in doorways, TR making more traps. It doesn't matter how many lights you put on something if you can't see it until you're in the danger zone.

Edit: Myself as an example, I'm constantly running up on NC betties in doorways. I die often, obviously. However, when I get my head about me and move with more patience, it happens far less because I often just shoot the mines or use another door. TR mines are more often behind corners so you can't shoot them from a safe distance.

I don't know how I can make myself clearer. The VS and NC do not see any lights on the Claymore. All lights that TR can see are solely there for the TR to know which side is the front and which side is the back.

They claymores damage is directional but has a higher chance of getting a kill. It's a better trap weapon. The claymore will always have a better chance at killing something if it's damage is only in one direction.

The other 2 are better for dropping into clusters and blowing 5 people up.

Doesn't that translate to the claymore simply being a better mine, then?

Amazing how the simple suggestion that all mines becomes equally as lethal as the TR mine, or it becomes slightly less lethal, results in so much outrage. The numbers don't like, the claymore earns a notable number of kills more than the other two. That suggests that the claymore is the odd-man-out.

I wonder if there's even one single weapon the TR has that TR players would ever admit isn't the 'worst thing in the game ever'.

The Orion performs very slightly better than the other two default LMGs, but worse than several others, in particular the Anchor. Yet since the PPA nerf was announced there's been at least one thread on the front page of people lining up to tell stories about how the Orion is the most broken weapon in the game.

But a mine is significantly more effective than the other two, but it's fair because, like the guy above me actually wrote with no sense of irony at all: "It's supposed to be overpowered."

Careless players will always be careless. You know that as well as I.

PS- I have no problem with the whole HA/Orion .075 ADS OP discussion raging in the forums. You're just using the weapons you have at your disposal. Nothing wrong with that.

Just add the lasers back to it, why they got removed when betties/Vanu ones got blinky lights was bizarre since the main problem was betties/Vanu were sinking into the ground and the TR ones not.

The real sticker here is Kills per HOUR. This means wield time drops down this value. How long do you hold on to a claymore before placing it? Just long enough to place it. How long do you hold on to a BB or Prox? Long enough to cloak up from spawn, run around the base, then set it down in the middle of a gaggle of spawn campers for lulzy multikills. Suicide infils are going to be dragging down the NC and VS KPH numbers a bit.

If you want to petition to get rid of the lights on the Betties and Proximities, I'll have no objections and even support you on it; but, really, do listen to people in this thread. It's not the lights. It's the placement habits of players that make them so visible.

I've had players see me shooting into a room, and they back away from the open door and drop a mine right there while I'm watching. In some cases, yes, I was planning to plow ahead, but that was only until I happened to see somethingobvious fly across my vision and land right dead center of it. I also explode it for good measure. Once it was even replaced just a second or two after the first one exploded, as if the first time never happened.

In as far as the Claymore is concerned, it's recently received two improvements to "compensate" for its limited explosive circumference - a slight damage increase and a slight radius increase - and as far as I am aware neither actually made it perform any better. The extra lethality makes it require a different rank of Flak Armor to survive, I think; but, regardless, I don't really feel either of these are necessary improvements. You could petition to get one of those rolled back if you want to try. It'll not stop people from dying when they charge through doors, but if it makes you feel better ...

No they are fine. It's the other 2 that need to be changed. Both the bouncing betty and proxy mine need those stupid glowing lights removed from them.

You know people have been complaining about the Orion pretty much for over a year, right? Before that it was the SVA-88, which was a better Orion.

Do we really NEED empire specific mines? I mean, making vehicles and infantry weapons different I understand, but unless there's a good way to give each faction's mines their respective faction's "flavor", empire specific mines seem to overcomplicate something that should be very simple: close proximity = explosion = dying.

I'm gonna agree with what FateJH said. It's all about placement. Give me some betties and proxies, I'll put them in places where the only warning you'll get is the annoying noise they make. You can't just plop them in the room and expect a player to say "Oh look, I think I'll just put my foot on it." They will either shoot it or walk around it. If I put a claymore in the middle of the room, the exact same scenario will occur, the player will destroy it or walk around.

"Permission to thrash on me granted."

The problem is you can't reliably put betties out of sight because they are much bigger in the x-y plane and it's not like a ring of light doesn't draw attention.
Whenever i try to drop it let's say touching the wall right around the corner i can't do it for the life of me. It behaves as if it had a big, upredictable collision box, which makes it bang off the wall just because **** you thats why and land half a meter away from the intended spot, in plain view. Nothing but a mine wasted.


And even if i get lucky with planting the mine to the side, the improved visibility aspect in that particular case comes at the expense of the killing potential. The delayed explosion and meh range mean that a dude simply darting through the door full speed may survive even without flak.

The very top of stairs kinda works if the dude is in a hurry and fails to stop in time, but i'd say it's the only somewhat reliable spot. On the other hand claymore can be used rather successfully at almost every corner, doorframe or behind a crate and it doesn't require people to actually step on it to be lethal and there are no clear visual cues of danger.