The "Orion is Easymode" Thread

I really should make a guide for this, because this flies past a lot of people for no good reason. If you read nothing else in this post, take away this one simple thing, KPH IS A GOD AWFUL STAT BY ITSELF.

Now, lets look at what the stats say when including some other useful graphs that illustrate what I mean when I say that KPH is a bad stat by itself.

The first I want you to look at is Uniques. To prove that this is not specifically related to the Orion, I will pick an Obvious example in the form of the Gauss carbine family of weapons. Take a look at this KPH graph here, and tell me which of the three lines (blue, light blue, cyan) represents the most overpowered of the three weapons? Take your time. Ok the answer is the Light blue line, which often outperforms the other two lines by over 200%! But wait, what weapon is it? Its the Gauss Compact Burst, the never used burst variant of the Mercenary. So why is this weapon so glaringly overpowered and why is it not being nerfed? And why is the performance so inconsistent? Consider the next graph in your final answer.

Now we take a look at the uniques graph, which perhaps answers one of the above questions. Take note, that the Gauss burst is that little line down at the 100 mark. This means that there are about 64 regular carbines for every burst carbine. But clearly it isn't cost, as the burst carbines are only a mere 100 certs. It is simply that the Burst carbines are worse in the hands of the average user compared to the Mercenary. So why does the weapon do so well to even outperform every other carbine? For that, we consider the average skill level, or average BR.


Average BR denotes the average skill of the user of the weapon. I will assume that BR denotes higher skill, even though there are notable exceptions that say otherwise. Now we have our answer to why the Burst is so damn OP, it simply is being used by higher skilled players on a day to day basis (with exceptions, because of its low uniques and low cost).

Because of all three stats, we can lay down the nerf bat and take a look at the big picture, seeing that the Gauss burst is not OP and that KPH is a bad stat all by itself. Now, take this new knowledge and feel enlightened or something like that. Class dismissed.

Wisdomcube2, I'd seriously prefer it if you stopped referencing Christ's name all the time. I'm not one to preach and I accept its probably just a linguistic habit you have; but you using it again and again in loose manner like that, yes thats offensive to me. Jesus would never have refered to another as dumb; simply for making an error, so I'd rather you didnt do it. - Its a sore point for us in the UK right now sure. But Christian faith is not a doormat for people to use when they see fit.

Anyway, I rarely see an ADAD user on cobalt of late. I've seen hip firing players do it on various classes (non-heavy) but from my experience most good heavy assaults are using the shield and are slowed down by it in all their worthwhile engagements.

Crouching rapidly and some skipping about to abuse latency now and then yes. Getting real use out of the feature when im playing my TR and coming up against SVA/Orion heavies? No.

In all honesty I think this just overblown junk to make people feel better/give them something to whinge about. If it wasnt why wouldnt everyone I see with an NS-15m (for the sake that im a vanu main) be giving me the movement bonus treament?

Almost always I find them stationary. Taking precision aim with their LMG or using a more effective CQC weapon entirely.

Does it happen at all? Sure. But enough that people are flocking to Vanu screaming 'D'Awww yeah dat 0.75!' ? hardly.

So you're saying HA players on your server usually stand still while dueling? No offense, but if true that is a testament to the caliber of players on your server rather than any percieved weapon balance issues. And btw, the NS-15M has the lowest dps and highest ttk out of the anchor, msw-r, and Orion.

Stand still? Sometimes.

How does one account for what wrel once said 'is a mess, its planetside 2'.

Adaptability is success in PS2. Not one singular aspect, I stick by that philosophy in many things. CQC combat happens often, so too does medium range forecourt skirmish. During those how much do I experience ADAD 0.75? truly rarely.

If I run into a room that has its 'point' flickering/being captured. I'll often find a player crouched or stationary at an arc, trying to cover the most real estate across the room. He has the edge; because unless I have tools to the contrary im running in blind.

Why would he strafe or move? Just await me, point to the head 'click' - RoF may determine it, or not. Chances are if he is good I'll be backfooting it save random chance.

In a room clearing squad from the reverse perspective. What do I see? Heavies yes, but more often then not scrambling about in the chaos of their own team crossing their own line of fire, people all over - a mess.

Should I be concerned that one guy is milking ADAD while im eating the barrels of the 5 guys who brought shotguns? I dont see why I'd care.

Outside in the open then the shield glows and you can bet (since i can aim well enough to land at least something) that the shield pops on. Lights him up, makes him easier to hit and personally i find the flailing about at longer ranges that some try to not make much difference. I stopped caring some time ago I'll give you that - when some heavies started tanking a whole 150 rounds almost from flare, and then turning as if out of a dream and killing me in 3 (hello hit detection)

But did I say immobile? not move? not so much. Simply that I've watched a good many good players walk in slow, shield on and headshots down. Job done.

Why flap back and forth like a schizophrenic when you can compensate for the aim and drop the guy anyway?

Higher damage, slower speed is fine if the target isn't moving or is running straight at you. The problem with lower RPM is the gaps between shots, so trying to hit someone upclose who is an adadadadadada elite is quite hard. You can literally have your crosshair on them the entire time and miss a ridiculous amount of shots. Oh and wait, the 200 damage weapons have the worst moving accuracy of any guns...but how does that make sense? It doesn't, so not only do we have the harder to hit moving target weapons....the game designers want us to stand still while we shoot (which again won't help us hit a moving target upclose because of the RPM gap between shots) which also makes us a target dummy for VS/TR. I have no problem with the TR 750rpm/143 dmg. NC/TR fights are fine, it's when it's 750rpm/143dmg/.75ads that there is a problem. Don't say "oh well the TR have more magsize blah blah blah" The MSW-R has the same size as the orion. But for your sake of the argument let's compare the carv to the orion. Carv has more ammo so it can continue shooting longer...assuming you aren't taking any damage and will never have to hide in cover. The orion has a quicker reload because it obviously has less ammo per mag. But there's also a HUGE gap in how much better it is hipfiring. (Saw has the same problem). So not only is the orion better ADS upclose. It is also way better at hipfiring up close.

You say people will try and find a middle ground LMG...that is what the anchor/gd22s and msw-r are. The middle ground equivalent LMG for VS...are anything that's not the SVA-88/Orion. But in comparison to those 2 they feel so weak because...well they are. When in fact they are nothing more but clones of the other factions non-starter LMGs.

To your last point, the bullet drop doesn't matter for LMGs, it's really carbines that is where it matters. If you took the .75ads weap off the Orion you'd have a balanced LMG that would still be better than the Saw or Carv. But it would at least be semi closely balanced. The orion can keep the .75ads for all I care, but the RPM NEEDS to drop to 698 to have a trade off for the increased movement speed.

I have to go for a few hours but if you somehow can come up with another terrible argument, please do so. As destroying your logic is quite entertaining to me.

I play on cobalt and every battle in cqc is people spamming movement, you're talking out of your ***. Even the complete noobs strafe constantly while shooting, people only stop to shoot at longer ranges and even then the good-great players still always move, especially the VS players. Fact is strafing is king in planetside 2 and stopping means you'll most likely get headshot by sniper.

Define 'spamming movement'.

A guy with a smg firing at the hip? expected. Thats the style. I was under the impression the direction was 0.75 L.M.G?
Jumping about with a shotgun perhaps? sure people like to run close and make sure that oh so skilled pump action shot hits the mark in your back. Are you assuming that I think people crawl up to you at snails pace ADS'ing their shotgun? No I do not.

I have used Orion, at the hip. I came to prefer ADS on all weapons and played about with their possibilities in that regard.
I enjoy vandal at CQC, im not good by any means but I dont discount anything.

Complete noobs strafe? Actually I find they panic and run about trying to dodge - Somewhat like the Gentleman in Mustarde's vandalism video, forcing him to waste a whole clip and making him laugh a great deal.

You assume alot. People move sure enough. Mobility is an asset, see wrel.

But mobility isnt limited to orion. Its a mindset.

I'll leave you aggressive little boys to your discussion in any sense Plainly I'm too long winded to be understood that clearly.

- KPH is a horrible stat
- you can't compare a STOCK weapon (i.e. includes BR1s stats) with a 1000 cert weapon (i.e. experianced players)
- the only properly comparable stat here is this:
1894 - Betelgeuse 54-A | KPH | Daily Average: 62.45
1879 - NC6A GODSAW | KPH | Daily Average: 51.35
1924 - T9A "Butcher" | KPH | Daily Average: 50.74

/thread

Literally everyone MOVES when firing unless they have a sniper rifle or a battle rifle, stop trying to sound like a ********. HA's strafe all the same except it's magnified because of people playing mostly the 0.75 ADS LMGs. You can notice this easily when playing semi-auto rifles or when you're CQC sniping. The difference in movement is noticeable.

Good of you to leave the discussion since all you're doing here is coming off with your ******** holier than thou (haha get it?) attitude.

It is OP because it is the starter LMG for the VS.

You're not taking into account how the Orion, Carv, and Gauss Saw are starter weapons and therefore used by a significant portion of the playbase. Conversely, guns like the Anchor and MSW-R you need to unlock. It is expected for their stats to be higher by default.

It is hard to make a definitive comparison between those and other weapons, so the best comparison you can make is between the three starter weapons and the three directive weapons. And in those comparisons the Orion/Betelgeuse are superior.

Derp? I think what Kolbax meant was that the HA is slow when the shield is going. So it cancels out alot of the gains.
I dunno where you got the idea she said anything about people not being mobile. But **** me lol your more aggressive than Iam.
Your far too picky on detail. Anyone with a brainage over four could tell she was on about extreme movement vs precision with lmg and I hate vanu! leave the poor lass alone.

FTFY.

True. And while I would agree with you on drawing direct comparisons between the Carv 9 and Orion, I can't do the same with the Gauss Saw. It's almost an entirely different type of weapon. It would certainly be interesting to have access to SOE's internal data. I have never disagreed that the VS have the best started LMG. I don't think any sane person could dispute that. However I would disagree with those who claim the Orion is OP across the board. I understand the 0.75 ADS. It's a factor. And so is the T9 Carv having 50 more ammo. Each one of them gives a different advantage that is beneficial if you take advantage of it.

As for the NC...honestly, I love the Anchor. It is my favourite LMG, with the exception of the Betelgeuse which I love for the Unlimited Ammo feature. And a lot of the good NC players I see these days actually use the Cyclone. Now whether that's due to the 0.75 ADS, the overall amazing accuracy, or better hipfire potential, I could only speculate. I do agree that as far as starter weapons are concerned, the Gauss Saw is a terrible one to give to a new player. 0.08 recoil is insane. And as for new players on TR/VS side, Orion and T9 Carv are both superb weapons. I love using the T9 Carv. The sound and the feel are great. And it's essentially an Orion. Just...less ADS speed, but more Ammo. And that's something that I use, to clear out several people in a room without reloading.

To be completely honest, if I could trade the Orion for the Anchor though, I would. As long as the directive reward version of it still had the unlimited ammo feature. Because THAT feature...imo...is the most OP advantage VS have. Never running out of ammo. Never having to reload (with proper management).

Thank god the shining knight in armor came to protect the honor of the lady.

HA shield isn't on 24/7, good HA's also don't activate it until they've been actually shot. And the slow makes even bigger difference on non .75 ads LMGs so I don't know how the slow is relevant to the discussion at all.

SAW is a pretty terrible choice for default.

They should just make the Anchor default and make the SAW 250-500 certs.

Saw is GREAT, but it sucks for a starter weapon.

Its called manners pal. try it some time!
You seem to put words in peoples mouth there too, expecting that to give you some kinda cred there are you? what a joke.
What shield are you even talking about? Switch your resist shield on after you've been shot to do you? riiight.

Bottom line ---> Game aint black and white! That was the point the ''Lady'' was making. Find someone else to troll little man you're boring.

The argument is very black and white, one (well not one but the topic is about Orion) weapon has a trait that is very strong in planetside 2, one of the strongest in one on one if not the strongest trait. With no acceleration and deceleration in movement, being constantly on the move makes you harder to hit and thus increases your lifespan. I'm sorry if you lack the intellect to decipher such simple stuff from the statistics and replies provided in the thread. Saying people suddenly don't strafe on Cobalt when in firefights is such a hilarious fallacy I just had to reply.

I'm going to assume judging from your username you're a trolling novelty account so whatever anyway.

I'd say GD-22S since it's only 100 certs anyway and performs about equal at both Q1 & Q4 levels of the Orion and CARV.

I have the GD-22S... it's a pretty good gun. One of my goto's on my NC alt.

Also, isn't the Anchor a free option using the free weapon questionare for new characters?