NS doesn't stand for Nanite Systems..

I thought NS meant Not Serious.

Well this thread got weirder quickly :|

Weird.

...I don't want to point fingers, but it sounds like you despise most or all things related with modern Japan including the hefty amount of anime that has come from them, things related to or resembling anime, and the reach anime has on other countries, most notably the U.S. If I am wrong, enlighten me. If I am even close to be correct with that assumption... well...

I find it hard to believe that you can have a problem with my attitude towards what was done if you aren't fully aware of what was done in the first place.

Well then that's just a difference of opinion then. Sort of like the debate on capital punishment. Some people feel it is unjustified because no matter what someone has done killing them is wrong. Others feel that it is an appropriate form of justice.

Again, it's hard to take you seriously because you lack historical awareness of the situation. 1945 Japan was really messed up. And it wasn't just a matter of the military... whatever craziness was there had spread to the civilian population as well.

For starters, the Japanese were treating the beheading of human beings as a sport. And it was no secret... major newspapers in Japan carried the "score" as if it were some baseball game. They'd even use game-like language to describe it; things like "tiebreakers" and "overtime" were common.



Which is arguably even worse than the German concentration/extermination camps, because at least the Germans treated their crimes as a dirty little secret and something that shouldn't be talked about openly. The difference was that the Germans knew what they were doing was wrong, whereas the Japanese thought that it was entertaining to kill civilians, something fit for media consumption by the general population.

See above. Japan was certainly a special case, because even the civilians were well-aware of what was going on and even approving of it. When you cross that line, you stop being an "innocent civilian" and you become a "co-conspirator".

Hmm, that's really interesting. Pretty creative I think.

I disagree with your vehemence. Strongly. For many reasons. But this is not the place to be discussing such things. Anger should not be let when all else is peaceful. Let us go on our merry way and rejoice in the good things and not harbor ill will towards each other.

While i agree what Japanese did was a totally **** up during the WW2, I'd like to justify the mentality of the japanese civilians during that period. Given how japanese was educated during early - mid 20th century, it was understandable that the civilians agreed and accepted the way the soldiers massacred the chinese. The japanese were literally brain washed to serve the 'king' and sees whatever action the 'king' took as right and sacred (hence why samurai was borned and sepuku and everything that came with it).

And who gave the right for the soldiers to kill ? the generals, and on top of that the 'king'.

What i was trying to say is, we shouldn't judge the way japanese act given how little self consciousness they have and how they were educated at that time, their action was the effect of their culture and how the leader lead them to believe he's the only sacred and strong, and everything he did was justify as justice.

Do they deserve the nuke, at that time, yes they do for the greater good. Do we have the right to make a joke out of it now? no we don't, definitely not.

People forget we firebombed Tokyo with B-29s, 15 square miles of the city was destroyed and 125,000 people died in that 1 attack.
Nuking Hiroshima was 80,000 dead, Nagasaki was 40,000 dead... so it is all relative really..

A blinding white flash is far more humane than slow roasting in gasoline jelly...

I'm not quite so sure though. I mean, at what point does a defense of "improperly educated" stop and "personal responsibility" begin?

For example, say we have an accused murderer who comes from a poor social background (abusive parents, bullied, didn't finish school, drug use, etc). All the evidence points to the fact that the accused actually did commit the sadistic torture/murder, and his sole defense is that his actions were a product of his culture.

According to the accused murderer, he was led to believe that criminal activities such as robbery, ****, and murder were "good" actions and hardly worthy of prosecution; this philosophy stems from the fact that his education largely came from media which depicted these acts in a positive light. The accused further claims that because he is now aware that murder is an act that is not smiled upon by general society, he should be let off without penalty.

So... is it the fault of the culture and therefore not the individual? Or does the individual bear some burden for undertaking an act that despite their culture would seem to be manifestly criminal?

Really the defense of culture is sort of like an extension of the Nuremburg/Superior Orders defense. Except that instead of an officer, you have a culture telling you to do something manifestly illegal. Both kinda stink.

Sweet Jeebus. All this over some cute art.

Yes i understand what you're trying to say, hence i didn't say that the japanese didn't deserve the outcome they brought to themselves. I was just clarifying the way the japanese civilians act (clarify, not justify) was caused by the environment and culture that they were in at that time. One example i could think of is, if you throw a child into a closed environment where everyone was a drug addict, the children will have a big chance of ending up being a drug addict too. It has nothing to do with the nature of the children, it's just how the social and culture around him changed him to be. Same can be applied to the japanese. And the japanese culture was build by the emperor in japan in that period, if i were to say who was truely at fault, he'll be the one.

The japanese performed masacre to the chinese and was a threat to the world, then they suffered the consequences of being nuked..

The criminal in your case committed murder, and he got sentenced to death.

Both received the punishment and rightfully so. But that doesn't mean we have the rights to beat on the dead horse and make fun of their loses.

where did you get that stats ? you a wizard ?

He probably asked her:

I have not the slightest idea how the thread derailed to this.
But since its interesting: If we follow that train of thought, wouldn't we be forced to excuse any and all criminal/terrorist acts? After all each and every one of us is the product of the surrounding society and people!

My personal worldview is very negative in that regard. If the reason why something was done wasn't specifically created to force the action in question (also known as extortion/blackmail) or is something that can be removed (like a tumor damaging brainfunction) I wouldn't care for the reason. In the case of organizations/countries the reason should never matter.
Actually humanity as a whole should act like our own body in that regard. While it might certainly seem inhumane, it would save a lot more lifes in the long run.

So... We started with cute anthropomorphic weapons and went on to Japan's WW2 war crimes and then on to a philosophical debate on the degree of responsibility that can be imparted on an individual relative to their upbringing?

Neat. I guess that's the internet for you.

I'll just say that WW2 was a rather desperate, extreme struggle on all sides, and that from the moment you try to depict a nation as absolutely evil and another as absolutely right, you'll be missing part of the truth. I mean, we all know how bad the third reich and imperial japan were, and a lot of people are also knowledgeable on the exactions soviet russia perpetrated both against it's enemies and it's own people at the time, but it's a lot less common to hear about, say, the rampant racism and extreme war propaganda campaigns going on in the united states during the same period.

These weren't fun times and, if we were to pass judgement on the people who lived then, any of them, with our modern perspective,would to some extent seem ruthless, indoctrinated, and generally inhumane. What would have I done with my life, had I been born in these times, in one of these countries? Would have I done what I see today as the "right thing", despite having been raised from childhood to follow an entirely different set of values? I honestly don't know, and hope I'll never have to find out.

Um... I guess what I'm trying to say is that studying history is all about looking at the events as objectively as possible. You can't chose a camp, no matter how tempting or obviously right it seems.


And to get back on topic: I like them cute things. Keep them coming.

Anime is freaking creepy, as always.

Uh, no. It would still be disconcerting.

No such thing as a good side in war. all sides commit evil in some shape or form the only difference is how far and how many lives they take in the process.

• mustard gas
• agent orange
• incendiary bombs
• cluster bombs

Think about which counties used those in the past, may still possess and use them.

I disagree with this. While no one's hands are clean in war, there are sides that are more guilty of this than others.

Specifically if you have:
1) A publicized form of entertainment that involves executing civilians
2) A systematic program to target and eradicate civilians
3) A bombing run against civilian and military infrastructure which incurs civilian casualties
4) A bombing run against military targets which uses unconventional weapons

Then I think it's safe to say that some of these are a greater offense than others. There is a difference between targeting military units and targeting civilians, between incurring civilian losses as collateral damage and targeting civilians, and even between targeting civilians behind closed doors or publishing those acts in national newspapers.

In other words petty theft ain't the same as genocide.

******' A! Because all Japanese in 1945 were war criminals right? ******* murder those evil random families in Hiroshima and Nagasaki because they had it coming.

I don't really give two ***** about the Japanese, because they're damn strange nowadays, but I can tell you're an idiot.

Guess what Jack, if the axis powers had own World War II guess who would have been being charged with war crimes? Fire bombing Tokyo to kill civilians? Destroying Dresden? Nice clean hands. It turns out that "total war" can turn kind of ugly.

As a side note, why is it that every Japanese anime thing seems to imply that that culture wants to be white and to **** teenage girls?