Surprised by forum reaction to lib update

*sigh*

If you read my post (you didn't) then you would see I'm not crying in the slightest. You didn't even notice that I *AM* the infantry. Derp.

I believe you were trying to make a point by being a complete jerk.
You failed to make a point. Now you're left just being a jerk. Good job!

ZAPS hipster Liberator pilots flew like this before it was cool.

By "every target" I assume you mean Infantry, since Dalton/Shredder AA/AV wasn't changed at all.

If there is any gripe to make about the Liberator update, it is that there is no longer any real good AI option. Shredder and Dalton nerfs were definitely needed, but the go-to AI weapon, the Zephyr, was drastically changed to greatly reduce its AI potential and make it kind of a middle ground between AI and AV while being rather weak at both.

I assume the Duster is supposed to become the new AI belly gun, but it is so weak at the moment that it is not really worth considering. The buffs it received helped but didn't go far enough IMO.

I do mean infantry, yes.

I do agree than the Duster needs some serious love and it really isn't fair that your only AI weapon is trash. I'm not sure why SOE wants inaccuracy to be a feature. I can understand making it an option if you're in a situation where you want to carpet bomb an area, but making that THE weapon is silly. It isn't fun or effective to use and doesn't scale with skill.

Its a shame Alerox. I used to have respect for your posts, but you have shown true bias, and disregard for objectivity in these lib threads. Its surprising because you fly the dang thing, but still fail to acknowledge some very simple points, favoring your VG over the overall player experience. ...............in red

Either your nuts, or SOE is nuts. You CANNOT (i repeat CANNOT) endores a hit and run play style by DECREASING DAMAGE OUTPUT. that encourages the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. if they were truly trying to endorse the behavior you suggest (which I have been endorsing since BETA), they would give the liberator weapons MASSIVE buffs, and in turn reduce armor, and increase transition time for hover/acceleration

Well i'm only speaking as a ground-based person (Liberator pilots would have previously called me cannon-fodder) - but my thoughts;

- You still see plenty of Liberators - no mass exodus
- When you shoot them with dedicated AA (turret, Skyguard or TB Max) - they now often take evasive manouvers. This is a big change; previously they wouldn't even bother moving
- they are still pretty tough to kill, although multiple dedicated AA does work now
- you don't see them in large fights with plenty of AA. No real change there then
- if you get caught in the open driving a tank, you're most likely toast

I was a TB Max the other day and with other AA, managed to get one before another got me - then switched to a turret and continued to hound without actually scoring any kills. A smart pilot managed to sneak around the back without me spotting him and killed me. But seemed fair, he had the better tactics and deserved to win.

I can only speak from one side but overall i'd say - feels pretty balanced to be honest, even though it is early days and people often get better when they adapt to changes. At the very least, they tend to take notice of me when i'm hitting them repeatedly with AA...

What the hell are you on about? A libby packs PLENTY of firepower to do a hit and run. More than enough to kill any vehicle in the game.

Meanwhile, a few posts before...

You use libs = you are a lib pilot.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just telling you your opinion is indefensible.

I stand by everything I said.

1.) I've said this before and I'll say it again. The game being fun is even more important than the game being balanced. Ideally you want both, but if you have to compromise then I will side with fun. I'm sorry if you would not.

2.) These changes do require adapting.

Ex: You can't try tankbusting an MBT at ground level and pull up after getting hit twice. You'll get shot down. Instead, you need to tankbust when they don't see you coming or from a higher angle.

EX: If a Burster is nuking you, you can't calmly turn and use the Shredder to kill reliably. Now he is a more significant threat. You need to take this into account and keep your distance when a Burster is in the immediate area.

3.) Vanguard AP is not effective against everything. It is effective against vehicles and can be improvised against aircraft and infantry. I would not consider 1 infantry kill every 3.5s requiring a direct hit to be very effective. I also wouldn't consider being unable to aim at aircraft unless they let you to be effective. Conversely, the Shredder and Dalton used to be effective against all targets but are now much less effective against infantry.

4.) The AA MAX is not your hard counter, agreed. You have counters, but you have a good chance of killing them all. Other aircraft, skyguards, bursters. All counters which you can kill. You now have a harder time killing the AA MAX in particular, which you should.

5.) I completely disagree with almost everything you typed regarding ammo.

6.) Just because I disagree with Liberator pilots it doesn't mean I'm biased. Have you considered that maybe it is the opposite? You can call me biased all you want, but I stand by my opinions as being reasonable.

Isn't that another way to say adapting? Less capable, perhaps. Incapable, no.

They are not complaining because many lib pilots already left/gone inactive

When two infantry can kill a liberator with their standard rocket load out, or one clip from 2 max's with double bursters, then it will be balanced.

Libs can farm infantry all day long, they get shot at and retreat or kill the 2 or three esf's trying to kill them, repair and come back and kill another 10 to 20... over and over and over. They finally die, timer is up and resources are full, or the gunner pulls his.

GOOD

Personally I am fine with the armor nerfs, but the nerfs to the weapons seems silly to me, and the nerf to the ammo especially so. Having less ammo is just an annoyance, it doesn't make the liberator weaker, just annoying to use.

TBH I don't think that the liberator was over powered before, but since it have such a high skill cap, only people who where very good at flying would stay alive for any period of time. If you had the same selection process for infantry/tank players (only top 20% or so that are seen), they would seem op as well.

And as always, nerfing multiple aspects at once=bad, regardless of what you are trying to balance...

(and if you are interested in my bias, my sph is higher in both magrider, prowler, mosquito and scythe than liberator...)

Oh hey look, a pilot that is upset that his farm machine cannot skillessly murder everything.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: The liberator deserves any and all nerfs that are put upon it for trashing untold hours of gameplay for many of us.

My lib went into storage and I pulled my ESF out of the garage. It's much more effective vs everything and kills stuff 10x faster.

Works for me. At least the ESF actually takes damage from flak and tank shells if it's stupid enough to hover in one place.

If my opinion is indefensible then why did you need to cherry pick? Hmmm???

As I said, you didn't read my post. If you had....

Advocating revenge nerfs is... not the way to help create a balanced game. If something must be changed for the sake of balance / fun, great. Asking that something be nerfed out of vindictive anger isn't the most mature of motives. (Yes, I know i'm in the wrong place to be advocating a mature perspective, but I can hope )

Yes, the "murder machine" needed to be nerfed to the ground. As someone who plays ground / enjoys piloting gals, I think they went a tad too far. Keep the armor nerf, the engine noise, and half the weapon effectiveness nerf, and i'd be fine with it.

At the very least, I think the max ammo / ammo cert lines should be de-nerfed (De-nerf... this term needs to be shortened. I propose "Derf")
Reducing weapon ammo forces frequent re-arms, which is just obnoxious. Personally, I never bothered pulling anything but a Sunderer until I upped my tanks' / aircraft max ammo, returning to rearm every several shots felt like a waste of time regardless of the vehicle. The Dalton, with max ammo certs, now has as much reserve ammo with max certs as it did previously uncerted. (Please correct me if i'm wrong, I can't find confirm this due to not being able to log in right now )

I doubt i'll be able to stomach the monotony of re-arming every several shots, likely i'll just not be pulling my lib any longer. Some people will be fine with it, and that's perfectly alright - I never libbed all that often anyway, but nerfing nearly every aspect of any vehicle at once is bound to drive people away from what is already a diminishing player base.

As someone who plays ~90% ground, I can shoot down libs now, that's all I needed. Engine noise actually exists now as well, that's a huge bonus. I'm on the fence about the complete removal of splash from Shredders, and i'm somewhat accepting of the dalton nerf. I'm fairly certain a Zephyr round landed in my left nostril last night, I lost my shields and a few nosehairs, for an AI cannon, that seems a bit weak.

The max ammo nerf, though... that one is just unneeded.

tl ; dr
Middle ground would be nice.

You guys want this Zephyr back huh?

Ain't happening.