What's a Mag do vs other MBTs?

NDroid, I appreciate the response. I've run stealth and have developed a strong dependency on flanking and surprise, simply to remain competitive. I don't try to brawl as a Magrider because it is a death sentence. I'd say that I'm on the better end of drivers, but this skill difference can only go so far. The Magrider has numerous disadvantages and very few advantages, the most notable of which (stabilized turret) is now one less. Of course, a good Vanguard driver who plays to the flanks and doesn't simply push the frontline, is amazingly effective and can decimate Magriders. A stealth Vanguard is an excellent alternative to a frontline Vanguard, while a stealth Magrider is basically the only viable option.

There is a wealth of experience by tankers from all factions that see these upcoming changes as a potential pitfall of balance issues. The Magrider will be less able to compete with these upcoming changes. Will Magriders do okay? Yes. I'd venture to say that your average Magrider tanker has a lot of time in the vehicle and a lot of certs. They will adapt, but surviving... That's another issue.

As for Higby's comment. I recall it. It was hilarious back then and is especially funny with these reverse speed changes.

At nominal engagement range the Magrider isn't agile enough to evade the higher velocity shots coming from Vanguard AP guns and anchored Prowlers. It used to be, but they significantly buffed the muzzle velocity of those tanks while maintaining a net nerf on the Magrider's strafe acceleration.

What the Magrider needs is--truly--a return to its prior effectiveness. With the buffs applied to the Vanguard and Prowler nerfing the Magrider at the same time was completely unnecessary. The Magrider needs a buff to its AP velocity, and needs the Saron returned to its previous state, leaving in place the damage adjustments that were applied globally a few patches ago. It's pretty sad when the NS Halberd performs better in the antitank and even antipersonnel role than the Saron HRB.

The Magrider's armor can stay the same. Everything about it can really stay the same. It needs a DPS and range buff.

Yes, it is the tank that can do that.

But, it is not the tank that can deal with being rushed. Basically, that's how you kill Magrider these days, and it's pretty simple: Just charge it. Wherever it is playing peekaboo, just charge that position. You'll win, because the Magrider has the Prowler's armor, but much less DPS than either the Prowler or the Vanguard, and the Magrider is slower.

Once upon a time a Magrider using the Rival chassis could reverse about as fast as a Vanguard could move forward, thus enabling the Magrider to keep a charging Vanguard at an arm's length, but that was taken away. Right now the Magrider has no defense against a charging Prowler or Vanguard, and also lacks the damage to charge back.

You can try to magburn away, but that requires you to present your extremely vulnerable 6 o'clock, and even if you're skilled enough to successfully magburn to safety, give that action some thought: You've surrendered your position to the attacking tank. You've been driven back, chased away, and they've won the armor superiority fight whether you survive or not.

Magrider is hard mode right now. You've got to give ground and try to flank an enemy that is almost always prepared for it. The best way is to try and setup ambushes by luring Prowlers and Vanguards into charging, but consider the Magrider's poor DPS, coupled with the Prowler's very high DPS and the Vanguard's survivability, and even in an ambush and other such unfavorable conditions the other tanks easily come out on top barring any severe blunders on their part.

Relying on the opponent to make a mistake is not a good way to win.

I don't really see how this is much of an advantage. In fact, it actually isn't an advantage. Let's consider a few things here.

First, the Magrider's front armor has a damage resistance of 63%. The Vanguard's side armor has a damage resistance of 65%. The Vanguard's side armor starts off with a 2% damage resistance advantage over the Magrider's front armor. This gap widens if we throw in the respective reinforced armor upgrades. With Reinforced Front Armor the Magrider's front damage resistance goes up to 68%, while the Vanguard's side armor goes up to 75% damage resistance with reinforced side armor. That's a difference of 7% in favor of the Vanguard. Some advantage for the Magrider, huh?

But wait, it gets worse. Let's look at theoretical time-to-kill (TTK). With maxed reload speed certed, it would take the Magrider's FPC cannon 16.9 seconds (stock armor) or 23.66 seconds (reinforced armor) to destroy a Vanguard from the side. On the other hand, it would take the Vanguard AP cannon (maxed reload speed) 14.4 seconds (stock armor) or 18 seconds (reinforced armor) to destroy a Magrider from the front.

Magrider: 0, Other MBTs: 1

What about Prowler vs Magrider? As said, the Magrider's front armor is 63% or 68% respectively. The Prowler's side armor is 58% or 66%. This puts the Magrider at the armor advantage here...at least until we look at TTK. Against a Prowler's side armor, it would take the Magrider FPC (maxed reload) 13.52 seconds (stock) or 16.9 seconds (reinforced) to kill the Prowler. On the other hand, it would take the Prowler AP (maxed reload) 10.25 seconds (stock) or 13 seconds (reinforced) to chew through the Magrider's front armor. This is without considering Anchor mode.

Magrider: 0, Other MBTs: 2

Obviously, this is a very crude comparison. This doesn't factor anything in like secondary gunners, things like fire suppression, the Magrider avoiding incoming shots, or either side outright missing shots. But keep in mind that my only point for this comparison was to address the commonly brought up "advantage" that the Magrider has in keeping its' front armor always showing to the enemy. I think this comparison might help prove that keeping that front armor forward isn't an advantage, it's a necessity.

Sources: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance (damage resistance values) and http://www.ps2calc.com/ (TTK and damage resistance values)

ps2calc is very out of date.

http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance
Use that and the gun damage values.
Sadly, there is no easy way to find TTKs, you'll have to do it the tried and true way.

I just tested shots to kill on the live server (magrider ap vs prowler and vanguard side, vanguard and prowler ap vs magrider front) and it matched up with the shots to kill reported by PS2calc. Barring any changes to reload speed (I checked and PS2calc's reload speeds were spot on) then my above results remain unchanged.

I did note slight discrepancies in the damage of each cannon as listed by PS2calc versus the game (for example, PS2calc listed Vanguard AP damage as 2000 but the game lists it as 2075 with similar discrepancies with the other two cannons), but as-per my results on the live server, those damage discrepancies didn't impact the number of shots to kill.

Well, you -have- to factor in the secondary weapons. And that's where the out of date numbers get really bad.

It does when your on a mountain staying on the slope, at an angle we cant hit(TR here) then turning 180' and afterburing away to repair. Your main cannon may suck, But your Secondaries are the ****

I honestly don't think I have to. Like I said, my only purpose was to try to show why the Magrider being able to always show its' front armor was more of a necessity than an advantage. Therefore, the test was crude and not at all comprehensive. I admitted this.

I mean, let's even just throw the TTKs out the window. I don't think they're really that important here. The Vanguard's side armor, with reinforced side armor, is straight up better than its' front armor. Yeah, that's right. The Vanguard's reinforced side armor is 75% versus 72% reinforced front. It's to the Vanguard's advantage to show its' side (you could argue the side might present a wider target than the front, but the Vanguard is pretty wide in either case). How many Vanguards do you see running reinforced side armor? I see a ton.

Now, the Prowler's armor? PS2Calc's info actually was wrong here. It was only adding 8% side armor for the Prowler with reinforced side armor when it's supposed to be 10% (the Vanguard numbers were correct). This means that, with reinforced side armor, the Prowler's side armor is the same as the Magrider's front with reinforced! They'd be tied at 68% in that case. This means the Prowler is []not[/i] at a disadvantage when showing its' side armor to a Magrider (again, you might be able to argue the side profile is bigger than the front, but the Prowler is pretty square-ish). How many Prowlers do you see with side armor? Like the Vanguard, I also see a ton.

Again, my only point here was that the Magrider's ability to always show its' front armor to its' target is more of a necessity than an advantage. It needs to be able to show its' front armor, otherwise it is at a disadvantage.

The thing is that when you do assume there is a manned secondary gun the TTK between the tanks without ES abilities is pretty damn close, to the point where having the initiative is the by far most important variable.
It even trumps the shield in importance.

Some good posts on this thread.

I think the main upgrade to the magrider should be in speed. It needs to be the fastest tank. I'm happy for all the other disadvantages to remain, provided I have the ability to move quickly away from trouble (i.e. the more powerful enemy tanks).

Strafe speed will also have to be increased.

Exactly. We need those good secondaries to make up for our bad "primary." Have you ever seen a 1/2 Maggy? Anyways, you could always get the Halberd if your TR(I know its not an ES weapon) and Enforcer for NC.
The Afterburner only lasts one second max and you don't even get to keep the speed you were at when it stops. You just go right back to your normal top speed again.

What terrain are you talking about? Hills makes the mag slow as **** and a sitting duck (plus whenever you come over a little elevation the tank slooowly falls, meantime you cant shoot or see anything behind the elevation). Hiding behind rocks dont work when your to slow to escape and the other tanks just charge in full speed for an easy kill.

Funny you mention that, the magrider front armor is worse than vanguard side armor...

Im actually using AP ligthing to kill prowlers, lightnings and sundys, not much luck against vanguards tho. Only thing that works against them is to hit them so they see you then drive into friendly territory with the vannie chasing untill you get help.

What game are you playing?

Please consider that flanking has been made increasingly difficult due to terrain changes which force ground vehicles through narrow areas when moving along the lattice. The lattice system was designed to concentrate forces so that decently sized fights become inevitable, by making them meet head on. And head on fights are not the Magriders forte.

What's a Mag do vs other MBTs?

A: Strafe at mid-long ranges negating 95% of all prowler's/vanguard's advantages. Do this with two other average magrider drivers and you can wipe out a whole zerg of non-strafing tanks.

You want situational tanks with very low flexibility, but in a plain 1vs1 close-range-fight scenario would have the edge against the mag? (probably one out of 100 tank fights though)

A: roll TR or NC

I thought only the magrider's pilots were flaming? The tank is flaming too?

Instead of that crappy boost(unless the boost was omni-directional, which would be pretty useful), they should give the Magrider a stealth feature. That would be badass. A Peace through Power!