PPA vs Vanguard AP

you bring up 2 interesting arguments but your compairing apple's to oranges.

both of these concerns are very valid and would need to be adressed but doing so in 1 thread might not be the best idea.

there's currently tons of discussion going on about the PPA and its effectiveness but most of these threads (like this one) compair it to the wrong things.
if you wanna talk PPA then why not do it in the context of ESAI's? instead of comparing ESAI's to MBT's in general, which will just lead to unwanted and biased "facts" by some people *cough cough* aswell as derailing, trolling and theorycrafting about perfectly set scenario's which endorse playstyles unfit or unused/wanted by some players/factions and that might only occur once every blue moon.

my 1cent on the PPA discussion,

PPA is fine, Marauder and Canister are ****** and need some love

and my 1cent on the MBT discussion,

MBT's are fine, vanguard is fine, prowler is fine and magrider is fine.
after the next big MBT change some **** will change, but people will ***** and moan and a while later there'll be another MBT change and the cycle carries on.
(not saying i don't enjoy a good discussion on the matter though)

So instead of nerfing the PPA you wanna buff the other two? Well technically that is another discussion too (effectivness of ESAI's against infantry to good or bad?) But atleast we can all agree to the fact that the PPA does outclass the other ESAI's. Which was the main thread topic as far as I know.
To the first, personally I don't mind if you buff the other or nerf the PPA as long as it get's on the same level.

Can't believe nobody has clarified this.
Are we talking about the Light PPA or the Proton II PPA?

While nice, these vids are also mostly irrelevant in these kinda threads because it's all about 2/2 vs 2/2, which these vids don't cover. (No vids needed, all times are available).

Theoretical times:
The prowler is almost dead at 14s (it's burning/explodes in 2s) and definitely dead at 17.5 seconds, assuming V-AP with full reload certs. A vanguard dies in 13.1 seconds against the P-AP with max reload and lockdown and in 18.5s assuming max reload but no lockdown. Both times assume a maxed shield being used and all shots hitting the front.

Doing the same with the mag is quite funny: It needs 30 seconds to kill a vanguard with its shield and 19 seconds to kill a prowler, with the caveat that it gets killed in 9.5 secs by a locked down prowler.

Vanguard is like a moving Tank-mine.

Get too close to it, and you will die.

I agree with this, the canister etc is not as good as the PPA.

Yes yes you can win against an vanguard if you keep your distance, go the extra mile yada yada etc. But the same goes for the PPA in that case, it has terrible accuracy so if you stay at a long distance you wont die. But its really hard and annoying so its easyer to just say it needs a nerf.

Did you use sheild?

Theres alot of great ideas as to why the PPA is deemed OP but other weapons, of similar performance are deemed ok, but no one is touching on the core reason. The reason which plagues this game in its entirety, and is the cause of MANY of this games failings.

The reason why the PPA is deemed op is simply because the PPA kills infantry. the infantry crowd is notorious for hating everything that can kill them more effectively than they can fight back. Vehicle lovers tend (there are exceptions) to attract a crowd which is more inclined to understand gameplay mechanics in a more complex form, and play to their strengths and weaknesses. this means they complain less, and adapt more. this is why 90% of the complaints on these forums is against infantry oriented weapons, and why this game continually drives towards infantry only combat, and solo player domination. this is why a tank round designed for explosive effects has a blast radius similar to a grenade, and why a grenade has a giant flashing red beacon on it.

Sorry it was never a conparisson, i was merly talking about the fact that vanguard AP sheild is just as good in tank brawl as the PPA is at killing infantry. Yet the solutions are diffrent, nerf the PPA and for AP vaguard with shield the solution is that you simply lose all brawls, and go the extra mile by staying at long distance from vanguards. Why is not that solution just applied to the PPA? instead of a nerf.

If they didnt have ******* XP etc there would their might not me a problem <_<

First of all, it's not an ideal comparison.
Second, the topic of the thread is just an invitation for confusion. I'll go out on a limb and say that maybe you shouldn't have made the thread, but hey, that would be donning the uniform of Cpt. Hindsight.

Absolutly usless whitout the vanguard poping sheilds

Yeah it was probably my sleep-deprived morning madness talking. But it was just a thought that popped up, planetside brings out such a whiner in me. I hate it but i cant help myself.

I dont even use the PPA that much, but i love spawning a mag and its the most fun tank imo even with some flaws. But what gets to me is that everytime a vanguard popps up on the minimap there is nothing you can do, your to slow to get away and if he has a sheild your 100% dead unless he misses 2/3 shots or does not have sheild/AP (never happens)

Another thing is when your playing infantry you can pretty easy keep mags and prowlers away with rockets, but thats almost impossible with vanguards. You almost HAVE to use C4, everything els takes forever and they never die due to the speed, sheild and resistace.

Plus its almost impossible to have a sec gunner for magrider unless your playing with your outfit, and in that case we almost never use magriders.

Lol there i go again, sorry :c

Unless the Prowler Anchors down and initiates the fight with a Vanguard the Vanguard should win. This should always be the case if the Vanguard gets the first hit. Anchormode is best used when people know you're there, but once they know you're they it's a liability to use.

I actually don't want the PPA nerfed. I want the Canister buffed to be like the PPA. Heck even if it had the same stats and fired a cloud of pellets that differed only in graphic to the energy balls, but was identical in what it did, then great.

But leave it to the VS to do like they did during the ZOE craze. They'll go on the defensive instead of asking for a buff to Charge. And then end up getting their toys nerfed because of it.

Watch the Canister become the best Secondary without getting a buff because of it.

Sure we all love farming massive amounts of infantry with our tanks, do we ?

My only complaint with the magrider is the ability. It has hardly any real battle use other than to run away.

But there seriously needs to be a fix to the canister and marauder

What else are tanks for? No one's ever capped a base with one in PS2's history.