Can't fly anywhere near a fight please fix

TBH I think SOE backed themselves into a corner when they allowed both Lib's and ESF's to be ground attack units .. It's only going to get worse when the Val is released ..

Lib's should have been ground attack only ..
ESF's should have been A2A only ..

They then could have balanced G2A based on that .. Atm it has to be based on " Every " Air unit being able to damage ground .. While the majority of what should be a Lib's counter ( ESF's ) is also attacking ground units ..

Hasteras said:

The skilled pilots of old knew the key to their own survival was held in their own hands.

When faced with numerous peasants, a wise pilot either rubs his belly on the blades of the grass of Amerish, or ruffs the hide of his ESF against clouds of the skies of the Indar desert. He thus ensures he will surive at least until his timer has finished. All other altitudes are folly.

Why they didn't follow the PS1 model I have no idea, not only would it have been better balance-wise, but it would have given them an extra vechile to sell weapons for as well.

ESF would not become more powerful if you only buffed afterburner tanks. You CANNOT reliably kill infantry with a nosegun anymore. Try hovering in any kind of fight to use the nosegun to kill and you WILL get shot down.

Pretty much the only thing that you are killing with a nosegun on an ESF is other air.

So there will be no overpowering of the ESF if you give afterburners combined with a non AI nosegun the composite resists vs flak and flares for free.

It wouldn't make A2A ESF invulnerable to ground, but really all of this AA and lock-ons werent intended to be used against A2A pilots. They were meant to be used against ground pounders.

Let the ground pounders get pounded like they do now imo, but the A2A pilots shouldn't have to suffer because of noobs who like to farm infantry.

If i had my way rocket pods wouldnt have any splash at all and would be usefull only for killing vehicles.

Also this would make the AB pods more balanced vs overpowered coyotes and A2A missiles. Really you would solve about every problem related to ESFs atm.

Don't forget AV turrets got nerfed because they were too effective due to A) their range and B) the near impossibility of retaliating against them.

Lock-ons and flak sources are the same way. If you are in an A2A ESF you have no way of fighting back against these things.A similar range reduction seems to be the logical answer.

Perhaps to make up for that you reduce liberator resistance to flak.

Teamwork isnt always the answer. Look at everything that has ever been nerfed in this game and those defending it used the teamwork argument. Got a Zoe max to contend with, use teamwork. Got an AV turret to deal with, use teamwork. Got an ESF with rocket pods on you, use teamwork. Etc. etc. the list goes on.

People in this very thread have even admitted to pulling AA ostensibly to grief pilots.

Any weapons that lead to griefing like flak, lock-ons, rocket pods, HE rounds, thermals, etc should be fixed. It is things like these that make the game hemorrhage players.

And as players we should be united in stamping out cheeze wherever we find it.

Just going to say, if rocketpods had no splash, hornets would be objectively better, so people would no longer shell out cash for the rocketpods.

Option C) PS1 AMS. You wouldn't need to buff AA

If I knew who were A2A pilots I wouldn't bother pulling AA to scare them, but having been playing this game from the start, seeing air turns me into full rage mode and I don't care about anything else than to ruin every pilots day I see.

I think rocket pods would still be better because you can kill things faster with them.

How many people do you think have quit the game due to splash damage? Almost everyone i got to play quit because of tank spam.

Right and since its impossible for ground units to tell the difference you just add composite, flares and AB into one package. A2A ESF should not be immune to the ground.

The air game is a big mess. The vehicle game in its entirety is simply a distraction, which contributes to the air mess.

The devs haven't backed themselves in a corner.. the players backed themselves into the corner.. or rather into a narrow mindset. To explain this is to describe that there is literally two different methods of playing the game. You have Cert Farming and Goal Oriented. In addition there is 3 ways to play both of those. Those are Solo, PUG, and Coordination.

Cert Farming is a method focused on rewards. If you've ever looked to get more rewards from AA rather than being content that you chased off the air. You have a cert farming mentality. Sometimes the line blurs. Sometimes having a cert farming mentality is subconscious. Some of us like to be rewarded for winning.

Goal oriented is where you seek to win the alert, take a techplant to deny MBT's in the area. Or even seek to 3 cap the continents. You have a goal in mind and by damn it all you're going to complete it.

Next is the styles to these two methods.

Then you have solo. Which is self explanatory. You're just running with or without the zerg. You're not in a platoon or squad, or if you are, you just go whereever. Sometimes these players like to win. And god help them because they are frustrated the most. Most of the time they are just farming certs. Sometimes we all do this just to pass time.

Next is PUGing. Zergfits, open squads, ect. You don't run with the same people. Benefit to this is the experience is different every night. Something new. Bad thing is its different, you have good groups and bad groups. Just the luck of the draw. Most people Cert Farm this way. But many can goal orient this too. If I'm not running my static squad, I seek to join these groups that are trying to win alerts. Thats just my personal take on it.

Finally you have coordinated groups. These are usually static squads. But could be open platoons too that are well regulated (aka you have 30 seconds to redeploy or get the boot). These are normally goal oriented thats why they started. God help you if you're on the opposing side while pugging when they are cert farming. Thankfully that is rare, and if not, they do it in smaller groups.

The three playstyles are just based on what a player has access to either by skill level or time to play. None of them are wrong. And each has their own way. If you like to meet new people, then PUGing is great. If you like playing with the same people over and over, then a static squad is better. If you just want to get on for 35 minutes sometimes soloing is a good way to get some game time in.

Playstyle isn't the issue. Its the two methods that cause friction. Which method should SOE work on game balance around? Should the game revolve around getting certs, scores, and KDR? Or should the game be based on objectives?

This is the vehicle mess right now. Vehicle play tries to lend to both styles and doesn't meet the standards of both. What are those standards?

Cert farming as it stands with vehicles would mean that an Infantryman with standard equipment should be able to deal with any Air, any Ground, and any other Infantry. All they have to do is hit up an infantry terminal and poof, they can deal with the threat at hand if they are good enough. Same thing applies to a tank, harrasser, sundy, or anything else. If you're in a MBT, then you should be able to fight a Lib, or a ESF, or whatever.

For Goal oriented play. Vehicles are merely a tool to address an issue. At the base of the game, you use infanty to take a point. You use vehicles to get to the point. Its obviously more complex than that. And the reason for it is this. Base is defended by infantry, so you can use tanks to clear and deter the infantry. They may counter with their own tanks. This is where you can use harassers to help pick these off or even bring in air support. They may counter with their own air, forcing you back on the ground to pull AA. They counter the AA with more infantry. Repeat the cycle until one side eventually overpowers the other. This is where strategy is used to disrupt the cycle as well. Do you send air to this base to help, or withhold it, or send it elsewhere? Not every vehicle can deal with every other vehicle, and infantry may not be able to easily deal with vehicles on its own.

Which method is favored in PS2's vehicle game? By design, cert farming. Its not totally dominating as Libs tend to break the cycle. Now which method is favored by intent? I'd say Goal Oriented, objective based play. This is evident by the Galaxy's ability to drop coordinated players on point and ignore all other vehicles in the process.

In the end, its ticking everyone off. No one can have their cake, nor can they eat anything. The devs messed up by not conveying what they want PS2 to be. The players screwed up by dividing themselves into the two camps. So how does this get fixed. Well what needs to be decided is do we want a score/reward based game based on individual skill. Or a game based on tactics and strategies.

You can't have both. Tactics and strategy means someone has to lose. Losing means despite what you do, you lost the base if the other side brought something you didn't account for. For example an open air base (cap points not in buildings and exposed to air) gets attacked by enemy air and because AA wasn't setup before they got there, the base is just lost. That means blitzkrieg style attacks are rewarded unless faced against a prepared defense. Of course if you setup AA before the air arrived, they should get decimated unless they sent ground forces forward first to deal with the AA.

But I don't think the players are ready for that. It would burn many of them. How do you tell a current player in PS2. "Hey man, YOU lost this base because you didn't do this." That isn't going to compute for some people. They are simply going to respond with, "well why can't I hold this base if I do that now?" The concept of too little, too late, and the consequences for it isn't something that goes through their mind or they are simply unwilling to accept it.

I mean how many of you are willing to give up a base you just spawned at because its surrounded by tanks before you got there? You all aren't. That's why these discussions come up.

But at the same time, many of you are trying to say you want a dynamic game where KDR and other stats don't matter. Yet you wish to be able to counter threats simply by hitting a vehicle/infantry terminal.

So we have to ask ourselves, what do we really want? Do we want this game to be based on individual skill, where everything has an in reach counter. Or do we want a game where foresight is rewarded, and consequences are taken when they happen?

Basically if you want the ability to deal with Air, AFTER air shows up, you want the former. If you'd rather have it so you have to prepare before hand, then you want the latter. That's a simple way of explaining it.

I think there is a fundamental problem with the way the Air and Ground interacts in Planetside 2. Its not fun enough! When there is no enemy infantry (or whatever you like fighting) the game sucks, its boring - nothing to do. Not enough people enjoy fighting air because the gameplay is weak - unlike general infantry and anti-tank.

When air shows up you either point your boringlauncher and launch some boring into the sky which makes them go away so you can get back to having fun. Getting a max is only something people do who really HATE air. HATE. No one else can be bothered wasting resources to fight something that just disappears.


Why don't they make the bit where you fight the air....... FUN?

How? Weelllll...



We also need a another side grade dumbfire rocket; a faster but half damage default dumbfire for longer range tanks and slower air.
Then remove timers from fighters to get more air to fight.

Thats a lot of text, and while i didnt read it all i did agree with most of what i read.

I prefer a game that is fair and skill based.

Anyone who has run a flak turret or a skyguard or locked onot an ESF or rocket podded the ground or zephyr libbed or used a proton ppa, all of which i have used myself, will know how cheesy and skilless these weapons are.

When i have used rocket pods against infantry, which i occasionally do when they lock me too many time, i only feel bad for them. I put myself in their shoes, because i have been in there shoes, and i know its terribly unfun for them. The same goes for farming them with the ppa or a lib.

I feel afraid that my farming them will make them quit, the same way it made most of my friends from other games quit.

I don't want people to quit because this game is great and i want to keep playing it.

In a pvp game no 1 person should ever completely dominate another person imo, no matter the circumstances. I dont know where this whole idea of so called 'hard counters' came from, but its a terrible game mechanic in an mmofps. It might work great in a rts game, but not in an mmo.

Why cant 1 skyguard be an even match for 1 ESF the victory going to the better player? Already it is far easier to pilot a skyguard than an ESF. Why shouldn't you have to have 1 skyguard for every ESF?

"Will make me leave and not come back."

There's your problem.

How much flight time do you have?

First problem.
You die too fast.
ESFs should have shields as infantry do. 50% of HP as a shield. Fire suppression is not that helpful. Auto-repair is slow. If you fly ESF you spend more time repairing it rather than flying.

Second problem.
ESF vs ESF time to kill is to fast, it takes away the fun.

This is why ceilings should be RAISED even though the devs aren't really fans of this idea :

im fine having tough counters that can kill you in a ESF

But even now with rockets it very hard to kill any thing on the ground because you just go so much flak every where now. ESF could be safely given more armour now because it seems pretty much half the players or more seem to have AA weaponry and are vets

"I think there is a fundamental problem with the way the Air and Ground interacts in Planetside 2. Its not fun enough! When there is no enemy infantry (or whatever you like fighting) the game sucks, its boring - nothing to do. Not enough people enjoy fighting air because the gameplay is weak - unlike general infantry and anti-tank.

When air shows up you either point your boringlauncher and launch some boring into the sky which makes them go away so you can get back to having fun. Getting a max is only something people do who really HATE air. HATE. No one else can be bothered wasting resources to fight something that just disappears.


Why don't they make the bit where you fight the air....... FUN?

How? Weelllll..."


We also need a another side grade dumbfire rocket; a faster but half damage default dumbfire for longer range tanks and slower air.
Then remove timers from fighters to get more air to fight.


Be very cool when the gaming industry finally pull there finger out and make vertial reality love to play a W2 game, iv played paintball before but it pretty ****-half the time the gun does not work.


And I agree liberator and ESF's are just useless I feel im better of just staying infantry my K/d playing infantry is about 3.

the mestake they made was making that every one could use them at once, if they made a spawn cap for them then it be better because you could have a powerful vehical with less numbers.

One thing that stood out in the thread was "If you have a rat problem, stop killing snakes". Pretty much the issue right now.

People want more effective AA, or better options, but it needs to be handled very carefully because as it stands AA and ESF's are in a good spot. Flak and lockons don't outright destroy them unless you have multiple AA weapons, in which case they can be very deadly.
Otherwise they perform quite well at deterring ESF's from hanging around too long. But not libs. Oh no. When I repaired a turret and caught a lib dead to rights hovering about 50 feet over the base, pounding it with flak, it panicked, paused for a few moments, and then left only just smoking after a sustained burst from empty to near full heat, a brief pause to cool, and maxed heat again.
He had a TB and dalton, if he'd not panicked he could have easily destroyed my AA turret, but he got scared and decided to seek greener pastures with less AA.

Imo what we need is something like an anti-air APHE round specifically made for taking down libs and gals, but very difficult/inefficient to use against ESF's. Replace a good portion of the flak turrets with a turret version as well, and there ya go. Less saturation of flak, but flak + APHE can provide an effective deterrent (IE leave or die. Not contemplate if you can continue farming for a few minutes, then go) to heavily armored aircraft.

And how are Skyguard, Turret, LockOn or Burster MAx operators supposed to know that you're A2A only? They see an ESF, they start firing at it!