What is wrong with having WW2 German looking helmets?

I get why the overall helmet shape was turned down, but I would have loved it if the brow overhanging the goggles had been kept. The sunken/obscured eye theme is something awesomely sinister about the TR headgear. Spash some yellow on there, and the final version would have a shot as an NC helmet. It actually kind of reminds me of something I'd wear to go cut Luke out of a Bantha.

Seems like they answered that already.

lol people really care about looks/lore in this game?

All the more reason to not knuckle under and instead try to reclaim that symbol, IMO.

reminds me of all the crap my MOS (0317) got just recently for using the double-sig rune... despite the fact we had been doing it since the 80s and no one cared until 2012 when some ****** decided to make a big deal over it

I think it's like Rhyme said. It's not that it looks like a WW2 Wermacht helmet specifically that's the problem, it's that it looks like the WW2 Wermacht helmet used by the Helghast in Killzone. Although Killzone and PlanetSide 2 are both published by SOE, I don't think a cross-over's on the cards yet...

...Although that would be effing brilliant! Planetside's scale but with Killzone's style. Winner!!

While the whole avoidance of national socialist themes is a justifiable cause, there's also another reason that is 100% valid:

* It doesn't fit with the intended art direction of the game.

At the end of the day, TRay is the man who has the say on what is and what isn't on style. That's his job. It's not a democracy, so appealing to the court of forumside might not have the effect you're expecting

So as much as the early models looked cool, the art director said they're not on style. He gave reasons why. The reasons are fair. He even gave suggestions on how to alter the model to bring it more on style. This is, to me, good art direction.

The benefit I see in this post is letting other artists know that going too close to those WW2 designs is probably going to result in a request for changes.

If you wanna do German Style helmets, Jin-Roh did it best (and probably inspired Killzone)

Once upon a time, I was an admin for a server which ran a fan mod of the old space sim Freelancer. We ran this server as a roleplay server... basically turning a relatively arcade-ish multiplayer setup into a freeform RPG. It was fun. Most of the writing and character work people produced was a little self involved, but that's to be expected. Most of al it was fun.

We had players from all over the world. The server was hosted in Germany.

Now in the course of this, some people playing characters associated with the in-game nation known as rheinland (based on a sort of weimar republic era germany, but projected into a sci-fi future), decided to write some storylines and play them out in game, which involves a far right group within the government. This took a decidedly jackboots and goose step approach. In short, it was taking historical reference from the period of time which led up to the second world war, and the political group which sparked it.

Now, given the server was hosted in Germany, this instantly made that fiction a rather contentious issue. Volksverhetzung is a concept in German law, which as I understand, is considered a punishable offense. It's described as incitement of popular hatred, and has certain connections... I'm no lawyer, nor am I German, but I understand it outlaws things such as holocaust denial, glorifying the national socialist government, and has certain clauses about using "unconstitutional symbols"... The wording seems pretty vague... r maybe that's just my fairly wooly brain turning the whole issue into mud before my eyes.

But we thought about this a lot. These players who were writing fiction about characters reminiscent of the national socialists, were being rather unsubtle about using symbols associated with them. sure, they were portraying these characters as villians... But villians who had their reasons, even if they were misguided. It started to throw up issues with the law... Not something we particularly wanted to get into a debate over. Legal debates are not something any group wants to get involved in... They can be problematic. Problematic in the sense that we might have had to find another server...

So instead of running foul of these issues in German law, we decided to ask the players to cease the storyline, and deleted the various posts about it on our forum. I'm not going to make any comments about the quality of the fiction, or the politics of the people writing it (although I could make many, most of them starting with the words "totally immature")... The reason we decided to pull the story and prevent people writing stuff regarding the national socialists, was a legal one, and had nothing to do with our personal politics or those of the people making these roleplayed storylines.

Given this game uses ProSieben (a german company) for several things, including financial transactions, i guess they would naturaly be hesitant about selling items which are even reminiscent of the national socialist regime, particularly when placing WW2 german helmets on a fictional group which are depicted as authoritarian and abusive. it's thin ice, in terms of legality, in Germany at least, and probably not an issue ProSieben and SOE really want to get tied up in. Lawyers are damned expensive things to hire... it doesn't take a court case to require a lawyer... Just the possibility of a legal problem is enough.

tl;dr version: It's a potential legal nightmare. Best not to get into the whole mess - particularly if it's a commercial interest.

Because for some reason SOE is afraid of ***** to the point of having to censor the word referring to members of the WWII German Socialist party...

Why would they have a helmet if they won't even let us say ****?

a lot of forums and games censor that word... I think it has less to do with the WWII German Socialist party and more to do with the fact we use it as an insult for each other the majority of the time it's written... lol

Most WW2 themed games will replace the flag used by the national socialists, with symbols associated with the german empire instead. The hearts of iron series is an example, despite the fact the developers are quite clearly obsessed with historical accuracy.

Relating real-world situations to videogames is kinda tough. I always find that it's more tasteless when people are making games out of current issues (for example the various modern military shooters where the "enemy" is nearly always the stereotypical "terrorist" figure), than historical issues, happily seperated from us by time. But whatever you do, when referencing nasty-stuff-that-actually-happened, you run the risk of being massively tasteless... or in the case of referencing national socialism in a game sold in germany - potentially breaking the law.

Only time I see it used is in conjunction with the word grammar In all reality, I can't say it's an insult though. It just mainly implies you're a horrible person or are so strict on something that you act like some generic stereotype.

You guys keep suggesting that OTHERS associate the WW2 german military helmet the regime that may not be mentioned.

Grand Army Vehicle Decal = the Iron Cross, a symbol used during WW2 as well.

Also that style of helmet being used by germany during WW1 and even after WW2.


And lets give german government the benefit of the doubt and not assume they would flip out over a hat.








































And much, much more importantly, I found this image when google image searching german military helmets.

I hate that armor style on females. I prefer realism over "Sexyness", and that right there is a death trap if I ever saw one. Basically Yoga Pants on the entire body, like that would help stop a bullet. High heels? Wow, have fun tripping on your allies dead bodies, rubble or random pot-holes from Artillery. No utility belt, no extra ammo, no grenades, combat Knife, provisions, anything. And that... Whatever it is on her waist, is an easy point in hand-to-hand combat to gain an upper hand, use it to gain leverage and throw them or disarm them.

Just put on normal armor, go kill **** like a normal solider.

So this helmet isn't ok, but hockey masks, skull masks, commissar hats (obvious Soviet reference for the "Red" faction) are "in style"? I even recall seeing in one helmet description that it was based on "Historic earth designs" or some such.

What I'd really like to see is a WW1 German-style pickle helmet (with the spike on top)...

Honestly, I do have a bit of a problem with giving folks the ability to play WW2 dress-up. One of the reasons is the image you posted. I'm not really sure if the fetishization of that period of history is really something we want to get into. Doing so would be pretty tasteless. Often the people who lean towards that ideological position are also drawn to images reminiscent of WW2 German soldiers and the whole WW2 German military aesthetic.

The propaganda program that the national socialist government used, heavily promoted the aesthetic of their military. It was designed to project the image of power, to look classy, advanced, stylish and striking. Massive military parades, architecture, the design of uniforms... These were all things which were designed to push a certain aesthetic and to associate that aesthetic with the national socialist "brand". It was expert marketing, and it worked. It left an indelible imprint on the world. The national socialist government went to such extraordinary lengths to promote their aesthetic and to associate it with their ideals, that now it is impossible to remove one from the other.

Even the sight of an armed man in field grey is enough for people to start drawing parallels in their mind, even if only on a subconscious level. As a result it doesn't matter how much you say "but he's not a ****! he's just wearing a uniform inspired by WW2 uniform!", the association will still be there - otherwise we would not even be having this conversation.

Like it or not, association in the minds of an audience is a powerful thing.

It's no coincidence that darth vader's helmet is inspired by the same helmet shape. It has become culturally synonymous with military enforcement of authoritarian and abusive governments.

I think sony would be pretty clear on saying that the TR are not space-*****, and therefore drawing parallels such as that in the design would be a mistake from an artistic point of view... They would also be rather keen not to draw people who align themselves to a similar political position to any one in-game faction in particular...

Seems so.

The art director is the one who makes the call on what is or isn't in style. He isn't even required to provide a reason, though it certainly makes the artists job easier if he can highlight specifically what he wants to see changed - which he did.

Like I mentioned before, it's not a democracy. There's an art director. The art director's job is to make sure all art conforms to the intended style of the game. And in this case, his opinion really is the only opinion that matters. Because as far as the player-studio artists are concerned, he is the client.

Personally I think even coming to the forums and trying to rally a public appeal against your client for what is essentially a commissioned work is not the smartest of business moves.

What's wrong with it is T-Ray didn't like the look of it. End of story.

http://4.bp.************/_XdP6Lp2ceqY/Sw33Sf_bWSI/AAAAAAAAD6o/EEpZTw2Jrbw/s1600/jin-roh.jpg