Can we unnerf HE rounds now?

But that fault lays squarely at the feet of SOE not infantry ..

1: They had two choices:

A) Make armour / air strong but limited
B) Make armour / air weaker but available to all .

They went with the latter and in a game of this scale you can't have option

C ) Available to all AND strong ( We had that with LibGate )

2: Bad base design:

Time and time again infantry will come to the forums and ask even beg for better base design to help limit them from a vehicles interaction.
And time and time again tankers etc disagree because they want to interact with every part of the game, but get bent out of shape when every part of the game interacts with them in return ( Not you BTW ) ..

Don't get me wrong I'm all for tanks and aircraft being strong in their place BUT that place should NOT be every place ..

Seriously the best thing Imo they could do is totally redo the cert system to be branching and to have dedicated roles that locked others in return .. For tanks , For air and even for infantry .. but that will never happen so we will end up with the never ending struggle to find balance .. And if I'm honest unless they majorly redo base design to pretty much exclude all vehicles ( not Esamir walls ) windows / doors etc etc etc then I doubt we will get balance.

Only if using Anchor mode, otherwise the Titan as the advantage (if you disregard the 2-shot mechanic, which wasn't brought up here).

Back then the difference between HE and HEAT/AP wasn't as large as it is now.

To the people saying "one-shotting infantry". You know there's flak armor right?

i think i agree with most of this

even as a tanker i dont want HE unnerfed because in my eyes the vehicle gameplay is horrible in this game because ANYONE can get a tank (they should have been certable) and they shouldnt of had HE rounds n the first place AND they should of made tanks have more armor so we can actually have vehicle vs vehicle battles instead of hunting and running from infantry

certable tanks (1000 certs? 5000 certs? im not sure how much)
separate driver/gunners (so you cant lone wolf in them - thats what lightnings are for)
low splash / high av damage (as to not damage infantry as much as other vehicles)
totally drop HE rounds completely
reduce damage from infantry rockets (especially lock ons)
increase vehicle armor
increase distance between bases (for better vehicle gameplay)

BAM we now have the basis for good vehicle vs vehicle battles and we wont have to worry about 1 or 2 infantry wrfpwning us, infantry can do their thing without worrying about tanks as much because less splash and we wont consider them as much of a threat than other vehicles so vehicles will have a tendency to shoot other vehicles than infantry and there will be less vehicles because certable AND needing a seperate driver / gunner

Yes, if only because the Lightning's HE cannon is more useless than a PPA in a dogfight.

Give HE a massive splash radius without any damage buffs, remove the crazy reload timer penalty from the Lightning and then it'll at least be a good spam cannon.

Dude thats just rude

IMO they should keep the damage as is and increase the splash radius.. by a large margin for all HE cannons

I don't think they will ever revert them back to how they were.

I would rather increase inner radius and give all the HE cannons same porportion of indirect to direct as that of lightning which is 105%. 950 direct and 1000 indirect. Currently vanguard has 77% and magrider 85%. Vanguard would go from 1000 to 1365. Magrider from 1000 to1234. Prowler has more than 105% (700) so it needs no change.

They need to just give the gunner a coaxial gun.... would at least make it possible to fend off infantry.

Its a bit ridiculous really, whats the point of pulling a tank if its useless against infantry?

The main problem i have with HE guns, aside from lackluster splash damage, is its dismal performance against vehicles. Im not saying it should do well against vehicles, but its related to a mechanic of vehicle gameplay in general. A good tanker can be in the same tank for a rather long time (went 2 and half hours in my vanguard tonight), and over the course of that tank's life, you will inevitably encounter enemy vehicles and/or tanks. So you need to take something that can effectively deal with that, even if the immediate threat is infantry.

Because tanks cannot switch their loadouts without spawning a completely new, resource-draining tank, equipping an HE gun is just not worth it. It also doesnt help that the HEAT is both a stock weapon and fairly effective against infantry as well. With the HE, you take a significant hit to your anti-armor ability in return for a small increase in anti-infantry performance. Not a good trade-off even when you compare it to the AP gun (moderate hit to AI which can be compensated for by having good aim, and a significant boost against armor).

Would be nice if we could switch between different shell types, perhaps even be able to choose the ratio of different shell types. Either that, or be able to switch loadouts for a smaller resource cost. The latter would also add a little depth to the current resource system in regards to air and mechanized resources, which do not have smaller purchase options like infantry does.

Overall, even if they buffed HE like the OP suggests, i doubt I would use it anyway for these reasons.

Tbh, I bought the HE cannon when it was at its height. It's now been nerfed into oblivion and is effectively useless. That's 700 SC I'd like refunded, thanks. So do us all a favour, SOE, remove the HE cannon from the game, refund SC/certs, and let's move on.

And that's probably the most important part of this thread. We have something that was (rightfully) nerfed, but went so far that the item is essentially useless (although you can make it work if you really really try in select environments!). While it goes without saying that things you spend SC/certs on can and will change in the name of game balance, to have something go from OP to being useless leaves a bitter taste in players mouth's, as well as makes them hesitant to invest in the game further with SC for fear of experiencing the nerf bat.

My best SC weapon purchase was the Armistice, which hasn't been nerfed at all since it came out. My worst one was that second burster arm, because when I do need AA, rarely is a burster max going to cut it these days.

The important issue is mostly to do with score balance. If you allow HE rounds to farm infantry more, then they must give less score, or it's literally no point. Armor should be discouraged subtly from farming spawns pointlessly and given other objectives to use it on ie: area denial for outfitplay and clearing clumps of infantry medic balling. It should also be given heavier bullet drop IMHO as well.

I think it's a good idea in the long run, but really armor just needs a full on overhaul at this point. It's useless.

Well as a relatively experienced prowler driver I dont see a reason to use the HE turret under any circumstances. Its top of my list of things never to buy when I advise new players to the game. The loss of fire rate and muzzle velocity are the killers. Personally Id advocate rethinking the entire thing and making the prowler HE a single gun turret. (as this solves most of the issues)

Yes I find it hard to figure out why to use HE prowler unless they vastly buff the radius. :L Btw I just checked the price of HE and hahahahahaha it's 1000 certs! I pay 100 to get go from vektor to tankbuster but 1000 cerst to go from HEAT to HE? I get direct damage cut in half for increasing the inner radius from 1.5 to 2m, and that meaningless wider outer radius.

I'm fine with how HE is working right now. I certainly don't have an issue killing infantry with my tricked out HE lightning. Drive by shelling works wonders on medics/engineers and other classes that likes to be bunched up with people. Add a friendly harasser or two to the mix and the infantry all but ignore the grim reaper driving by killing their support. Its much fun.

HE on the prowler isn't bad with anchor mode lvl4, though heat is just better all around.

The flak armor buff coming is for direct hits from Rocket launchers, rocket pods, halberd, and potentially the fury/maraduer. It will not effect tank shells or dalton/zephyr (so they claim atm)

It will also affect MAX AV weapons (people will survive 2 falcon hits for the first time), even their direct damage. I think direct damage of some other weapons will be affected too like UBGL.

I just bought and used prowler HE and see no point. I can do just as well against infantry as HE.

too bad i can only thumbs this thread up once!

HE is in a bad place right now, there is hardly a noticable difference from the standard HEAT rounds for AI, but there is a large AV penalty, you'd have to be insane to use the current HE over HEAT.
(ofcourse not counting the prowler)