Can we unnerf HE rounds now?

No, please no, dont nerf AP, its only slightly better than Heat due to zero splash as is and not much gain over tank v tank fighting

Oh and welcome back yellow text, when that make a comeback?

>radius of 2 meters
>accurate aiming

Sorry, but I had to laugh at that, specially since killing people with AP shells is already quite easy.

You have more kills with the VPC than you have with the PC and the FPC combined. Please don't try to convince anyone that landing direct hits on infantry with AP is easy when you apparently don't do it often.

Okay wise guy, I'm guessing you were assuming I was referring to people standing still or oblivious derps because I wasn't. Moving infantry which are actively aware they are being shot at by a tank and are trying to be evasive are not "quite easy" to hit with AP, this is especially the case if they are using terrain or cover to their advantage and/or are far away. After getting 7,500 kills with the Prowler and the extreme vast majority of those not coming with using Anchor Mode I can confidently say hitting moving infantry with AP at range is no easy task. The fact also remains that a HIGH EXPLOSIVE AI shell landing in close proximity to an infantry unit that isn't heavily certed into flak should be lethal to that infantry unit.

And every single of those VPC kills was in the age of the OP HE tank, that was definitely easy mode.

Because I almost never pull a mag, lol, if I had more experience with the drop of the FPC it would be even easier, but when I do I don't have much trouble killing infantry (that's probably why my KDR with the FPC is almost twice yours when you're the dedicated tanker ), oh and btw, my accuracy with the FPC is really low just because I every time I pull one I try to hit ESFs (which is actually hard, and I'm not Eska).

Besides, it's easier with the Titan AP, and even easier with the Prowler AP because of the bullet velocity and the lower drop.

It's still quite easy to do considering it's mainly a AV tank, and landing shots 2 meters away from a moving infantry is still easy, when I used the VPC before the nerf it was definitely easy mode (and I'm talking about the worst of the 3 HE cannons, due to its damage and its lower bullet velocity/higher drop) I'm guessing that most of the shots you're missing with AP would be instakills with HE (or 2 shot kills with the Prowler) if they buffed them again.

Btw, I don't know why you think your 7500 kills with the Prowler are relevant when in reality you have roughly the same kills with AP as I do since you're using exclusively HEAT.

First off, never take Vehicle KDRs from Stats sites seriously, because you only get a Death recorded with that weapon if you die while in the seat. That means people who bail out of tanks don't get a death recorded on the tank's main gun, which makes them seem like much better drivers than they are.

I don't AIM my FPC at infantry. When I want to kill infantry I get my PC out, because the VPC is absolutely awful. So that KDR of 4.7 is 4.7 enemy tanks that no longer exist when my Magrider dies.

I try to hit ESFs too, and I apparently manage to nail 50%+ of those shots, so... Yeah.

If so, then we also need to look at seriously changing the role of tanks in this game, or limiting their availability. Also NO gun for the driver.

As it stands, tanks should just have a decal on the side that says 'John Deere'.

If you don't aim your FPC at infantry then why do you talk like you know how hard or easy it is to do so? lol...

So you have the same accuracy against a tank or sunderer and against a ESF? Sorry, but I don't believe you. If you have 50% accuracy without shooting at infantry, it probably means you have more than that against tanks and much less than that against ESFs.

HE tanks one shotting everyone again would ruin the game, tank spam against towers, windows and spawns is pretty bad as it is (and excessively rewarding for the difficulty it involves). If you want that, then SOE should make a complete redesign of almost every single base.

But well, if they did it without redesigning, then I might considering pulling my VPC Magrider again, just to prove my point of how ridiculously OP it would be

If it was up to me they would just straight up remove HE from MBTs and Lightnings.
So, no. I don't want to go back to how spammy things were before.

Well also keep in mind the Marauder deserves a nerf for being blatantly superior to the Fury. So HE definitely needs to be balanced sort of on its own to account for that inevitable, deserved nerf.

I like your suggestion for HE balancing, although I don't think the harsh arc is necessary (it would also feel really weird as a tank main gun.) But I think you're on the right track with the idea that HE could work as a much faster-firing weapon but with weaker damage. Although by "much faster" I'm referring to more like a 40-60% fire rate increase, with a damage nerf that causes the overall rate of damage to be relatively unchanged.

It feels like that would only be a rough first-draft at balance though, as fast-firing weapons with massive AOE seem prone to problems.

Actually I guess in honesty I don't have a big problem with HE's current balance apart from just how weak it makes you against armored targets (~25% less damage), and how rare it is that HE is the right choice due to the game's abundance of cover in many areas. I unlocked it on a tank recently and went on a 23-kill streak the first time I pulled it.

Really if there's a balance issue with HE it's that "how rare it is that HE is the right choice" comment, since it's not so amazing against infantry (due to slow firing) that the disadvantage against armor (~25%) is worth it in most situations. Either side of that equation could be tweaked to increase the likelihood that HE was worth taking in the current situation (either increase fire rate (while decreasing damage per shot) OR increase direct damage to more like ~15% less damage than HEAT (instead of ~25% less.))

Do you really think I can drive a tank around and not kill that LA trying to C4 me, or that Engi turret on the hill over there? Just because the gun is harder to use against infantry doesn't mean I can totally avoid using it on them.

My accuracy against ESFs is probably closer to 75%, actually. Firing at them and missing scares them away, and I want them to make another pass so I can get rid of them. I only fire at an ESF when I KNOW I can hit it. Only rarely does a pilot manage to avoid my rounds once he's gotten overconfident and come into my firing arc.

Even if HE rounds were reverted to pre-nerf status, they would STILL not one-shot everything. People have the certs for Flak Armor now, they should be using them. The fact that Nanoweave is the de facto choice makes it painfully clear how much of a threat splash is. That is, not a threat at all.

And you would get murdered by the AP tanks that would find themselves with lots of easy prey to farm.

This is how this is supposed to work.

Infantry<HE Tanks
HE Tanks<AP Tanks

Which would give infantry an incentive to run some armor support instead of just footzerging with a Sunderer.

You're primarily a HA player. I understand that you don't want tank buffs. But look at this rationally.

By nerfing HE, It made everyone choose Nanoweave. And that makes Infiltrators cry like little girls.

I would say yes to a HE buff only because more people would choose Flak over Nano and there would be less Infiltrators crying about people choosing a defense against them.

I say HE buff so then I can get some 'gear advantage' against the farmer tanks with my fpc.

No doubt about it, nerfing splash damage has neutered vehicles against infantry and it was wrongly done. HE has to go back to one hitting infantry with splash unless they have flak certed, that is the entire reason for flak's existance.

Until it can do that again it will be worthless. Heat inner splash damage needs to go back to 1 hitting as well. There was no need for these kneejerk nerfs that vehicles received from the infantry whiners that are slowly turning this game into a steaming pile of ****.

Restore reload speed. Increase splash damage for HE shells and bulldog by 30%. All happy.

You just mentioned 2 of the easiest targets for a tank (assuming you can see that engi turret of course).

I seriously doubt it, but whatever, no point in arguing over this.

The fact that nanoweave is broken doesn't have anything to do with this, that cert tree shouldn't exist to begin wit and it would still be the only real choice, as I said before, right now I wouldn't cert into flak even if it made me invulnerable to splash, and if the HE tanks could kill in one shot my decision would still be the same (specially because the main danger is still the Prowler, not the Vanguard). My problem is not with HE killing in one shot, my problem is with HE killing in one shot in a radius so big that even a monkey could do it.

That didn't actually happen to me when HE was OP.

And it's exactly how it works right now, I don't remember soloing a HE tank to be honest (except with C4s, but well, not my fault if the tanker is blind).

I look at this rationally, tank spam is already a problem that ruins certain tower fights, I don't want it to become worse. It seems to me that you just want that easy farm again (not that it's hard to farm infantry with HE or HEAT right now either).

I have 319 kills with the VPC. I have 771 with the PC and 718 with the FPC. My KDR is the pits, it's 0.88! So you really can't apply the term "infantry farmer" to me. If I farmed infantry my stats would look a lot better than they do.

Sometime soon, my FPC will probably pass the PC as my top-kills weapon. Because it's all I use.

Tank spam is only a problem when people don't deal with it. I have aboutely no sympathy for anyone whining about tank spam anymore, because I've heard it all before. "Tanks are too powerful, there are too many of them!" So SOE adds a myriad of ways to counter tanks, many of them so cheesy they could be melted and put on pizza and nobody would know the difference.

This is the bottom line of the armor-vs.-infantry arguments: If you are getting killed by a tank, it's because your allies were too lazy to remove that tank from the fight. That's it. There is no "tank farming infantry" anymore, because infantry are the ones farming armor. When I drive my tank, I have to run Stealth on it and cling to the outskirts of a fight, because if a mass of infantry looks at it its hull will melt.

I have to play my Magrider... using Stealth as a playstyle. My HEAVY TANK needs to be stealthy, because I simply can't afford to be spotted by the god-tier infantry AV weapons in everyone's pocket.

If you're being killed by a tank, you lost the fight long ago. When will people understand that allowing a tank to get into shelling position constitutes being outplayed?

For tanks, I almost use armour piercing exclusively these days, on a good day I'm a decent enough shot in a tank to usually nail a running infantry at 200-300m away.

Personally, as a tanker, I think tanks and Liberators and all heavy weapons should not be pin point accurate as they are, but have a fairly large CoF so that you can't "snipe" with them.

It the towers that can be shelled by the cliffs surrounding it? I don't think so, I call it terrible base design.

Correct me if you feel like it, where needed, but the rest is total BS 2 cannons does not equal 2x performance, it's not actually a valid point to base an arguement such as "Buff all other MBT, leave the Prowler out", on.

My Stats? I am not hiding them or I would have a different Forums name. I think I'm actually OK, and I've played enough PS2 to be able to form an opinion. What I said is based on my experiences with the Prowler, or riding in the turret, observing better Prowler pilots, ETC ETC. If we had to spend 100000000000 Hrs in every single thing to be able to tell a couple of things right away, we'd be in for a long haul. Take that for what it is and don't get so worked champ... Unless you're special that way.