Disable XP When Shooting From Spawn

Reducing the XP would be good, as would stopping weapons that aren't directly related to leaving your spawn room from working (lock ons, turrets, AA MAX etc). This would encourage people to realise that if there are a **** load of tanks and aircraft around their spawn, the battle is won; respawn elsewhere. If it's just infantry, you can push out as normal.

But yes, I 100% support removal of XP (and am SO glad people are realising it's the people IN the spawnroom that are the problem). If it's -actually- for the tactical utility of clearing a path to get out of the door, great, but know how many times I've seen that done? Never. Know how many times dozens of pubbies in my platoons have refused to respawn as ordered because 'the XP's great here.' 'I can pad my K/D.' 'We're holding up the enemy anyway...' (NO YOUR NOT, THE DAMNED CAPTURE TIMER IS DOING THAT!)?

The other solution I potentially see (though it would disadvantage defenders more, it would certainly make them only use the ability to shoot out when they're actually co-ordinated enough to push out) is to make it so that when someone shoots through the shield, they are immediately vulnerable to damage for 10-15 seconds. Or perhaps they start a 60 second timer before they begin to get a pain field effect staying in their spawn room. If you can't clear enough of a path in 60 seconds, you can't clear enough of a path, period.

Actually hilarious. If you've identified that capturing+defending the points is a core mechanic, how can you not see that spawn camping is the logical conclusion to that? If you've got a platoon of 48 people at your command, you've rushed into a Tech Plant and taken the point, what would you now have your team do? Huddle round the point jerking eachother off until the defenders have mustered, organised, surrounded and pwned you, simply because it means more shooty shooty? Or actually win the fight by capturing the base, necessitating severing enemy troop movements at their source?

Well yes - like I said, "better gameplay" is one of the arguments being used in this thread. If those actions are conducive to better gameplay - then why not.

Personally I dont have a problem. Like I have said all along - if camping outside the spawn room farming certs is fine - then camping within it farming certs should also be fine. If camping is not ok - then do something about it - but from BOTH sides, don't just penalise the defenders. This problem is not caused solely by people on one side of the spawn shield. As long as attackers camp spawn rooms - defenders will do the same. Live with it.

If you just focus on the points and you let the defenders run around the base, you'll always be at a disadvantage, especially if the outpost has three points, as you'll be spread out while the enemy has chance to organize. Spawn camping makes it so you only have to focus on one place, the spawn room, while the rest of the base is safe. If you leave the spawn room be, the base is not safe, everyone has to be on their guard all the time and you suffer more losses, and capturing the base potentially takes more time. Spawn camping is simply the most sound strategy from a pragmatic standpoint.

Also, the flow of the battle itself leads to spawn camping:

In battle, you are always pushing back the enemy while they try to hold their position and push you out. As you gun down people and eventually destroy their sundy (for example), they are pushed back more and more, which naturally leads to the scenario where they are inside their spawn room surrounded by your forces. Here the unnatural thing would be to turn tail and let them recapture parts of the base.

That's the motive behind attackers spawn camping, it is not certs. You don't even get that many certs by spawn camping, unless you're shelling the general location of the spawn room with a tank from far away while the battle is still being fought, which is an entirely different beast.

Because when those someones are in my team and are not even trying to push out of the spawn room to retake the base, it hurts my team and makes the gameplay worse.

SOE has made rules to make playing the objective appealing to players. Removing exp when you're camping inside a spawn room would contribute towards that goal by making undesired player actions less rewarding.

Exactly - so what are people complaining about. This is simply a product of the game mechanics. Like I said - defenders spawn camping is as a result of attackers doing the same. If you want to stop or reduce the former then the game needs to be changed to make the latter harder or less desirable - or make it easier for the defenders to break out into other parts of the base to try and outflank the attackers.

I doubt simply removing XP from the defenders shooting out would fix this.

I doubt it TBH. People have a screwed up sense of self preservation when it comes to their game characters/vehicles - and would likely continue to spawn camp just to avoid dying (its kinda like when a lightning driver mows down half a platoon of friendlies - just to preserve their precious tank which is coming under fire).

Also - some will do it just for the LOLs of killing the enemy.......this is a game afterall, whos to say what activity people find "fun".

You've misunderstood the whole point of this thread. Maybe you should read all 13 pages again =D or improve your reading comprehension. You are not alone with that problem though. You need not look further than this very forum and you'll find plenty who have the same problem as you. =)

To clarify the point of this thread to you in a way you might understand it:
No one is complaining about the KDR or EXP others gain.

We (well some of us anyway) are giving constructive criticism and suggestions on improving the gameplay by removing aspects that hurt the gameplay.

You already get reduced XP for killing enemies fresh from the spawn room.
I don't really care if I get XP for it or not though. I'll still be doing it because it is required of the attacker. The most effective way of taking a base is holding the point and confining the defenders in their spawn room.
Even more so because when the defenders are pushed to the spawn room, they don't even try to push out and retake the base even if they had the chance to do so.
They'd rather just sit in the spawn room, farming risk free KDR and XP while they lose the battle.

If your objective is simply to make people unable to retake a base from the spawn room, why not just make SCUs go down as soon as a hack is put on the base?


I think it's a daft idea, myself, but it's pointless having convoluted and complex ideas that amount to the same thing.

I saw so many bases get lost yesterday (all the time actually) because there were more people camping in the spawn room farming than actually trying to take back the base.
I think XP gain should be disabled while you are in the spawn room. It will make people leave it if they want to earn it instead of sitting in the spawn room making easy XP.

I've never seen any evidence of that though.

Not once have I ever seen enough people to retake a base sit in a spawn room and not leave.

1000's of time though (literally), I've seen hopelessly outnumber people spawn camped with no real recourse.

I think an hypothetical example would make my point clearer. The scenario is as follows:

The base has 3 points (A B and C) and is defended by 6 people against 6 attackers. The attackers were successful, however, and so the defenders were pushed to their spawn room

1) If the attackers were not to spawn camp and focus only on the points, they'd have 2 people on each point, while the defenders are 6 and all bundled up on the same place, which means that at least 4-5 (the majority of the group) would go together. These 4-5 can easily dispatch the two attackers in the points and can potentially turn the tide of battle, or at least, delay the capture of the base and cause unnecessary loses.

2) If the attackers were spawn camping, they'd put 1 person on each point and 3 people camping the spawn room. Now you may ask, there are 6 people inside the spawn room, why can't they try to overpower those 3 campers via an organized push and attempt to retake the base? Oh, the answer is simple. Sometimes one of the campers exposes himself too much and everyone is trying to play whack-a-mole with him. No one wants to die so they don't go out. The only person who wants to retake the base (if this person exists at all) is left alone each time he tries to exit the spawn room, so he's gunned down by superior numbers. The base falls.

This clearly shows both how the game design makes spawn camping the optimal strategy, and how reverse campers affect their faction negatively. This example shows a balanced fight, sometimes it's not like that and the attackers vastly overpower the defenders, in which case the best is to retreat and plan a defense or counterattack or both.

Note: this is not a direct answer to anyone because when I was writing this I had not seen Moony's response

6v6? Very easy to break out, even easier to sneak out destroy their AMS then just wipe them out and recap.

And the idea that in a 6v6 fight all 6 people defending would just choose to stay inside the spawn is plain silly.


All that shows is you know how to make a strawman arguement.


And again all this would do is punish badly outnumbered people to "fix" a problem that just doesn't exist (6 people staying in a spawn when faced with 3 people spawn camping them).

I've pushed out of spawn rooms plenty of times with my outfit and often times we had half the numbers I usually see camping inside the spawn room.

Atm pushing out of spawn room requires organizing because it's not a natural thing to do for noobs who'd rather farm risk free KDR/EXP.

If they'd get no EXP, they'd automatically push out or change base, both of which are better options than camping inside the spawn room, not doing anything worth while for their team.

Disorganised solo players are never going to move out like organised outfits, it doesn't matter what you do to exp., they simply aren't organised.

The idea that removing exp will suddenly make them do that is naive and incorrect.

All you'll do is encourage people to move to the zerg side (for their free exp) or just quit in frustration of being spawn camped and unable to get anything positive from it, neither of which would help the spawn camped side in the slightest or the game.







They'd be better off simply adopting PS1 route of being able to directly take and destroy the spawns, thereby largely sealing the bases capture for the Zerg side.

Seriously? =D

You sir, are completely blind.

Yes, the defenders choose to stay inside the spawn room because they get rewarded for doing so. While they'd get the same rewards by killing enemies outside of the spawn room, they get no penalty (possibility of dying) when camping inside the safety of the spawn room, thus making it in their eyes the more attractive choice.

A lot, if not most of the players choose their in-game actions by which ones reward you the best. They don't care about fair play, their team or the possible negative effects to the overall gameplay their actions might cause.

It is SOE's job to make rules that guide these players to choose the actions that are preferred and improve the gameplay.

And don't give me any bs about how people could choose to play the game fair and that's the fix this game needs.
There is no fair play in online games. At least not in PS2. Not with a community like this.
The player base consists of stupid sheep who need to be guided by placing carrots to the right places and removing them from where we don't want the sheep to wander.

Pushing out of spawn requires organizing because without organizing no one pushes out of them. =D
Giving no reward for staying in there would cause players to push out or go elsewhere. It doesn't need to be organized to be more effective than the current camping inside spawn rooms is.


I know there are plenty of workarounds to fix this. Most of them involve base/spawn redesigning.

However, removing xp from defending spawn campers is worth a try. It may or may not work, but I seriously doubt it'd cause any hurt to the game. It is a solution that could possibly work with the current base design.

No one plays the game just to camp inside spawn rooms.

Seriously.

I dunno if you just have a terrible server, but I've just 2 mins ago been in a small base fight were 3 of us (all randoms) defended from 6 squad players all from one outfit.

Took a bit of doing but we kicked them out and no one "hid" in the spawn room, all went out and attack superior numbers and organisation (they had MAX and engi and medi, 2 x LA and 1 inf).

Then the air zerg move in camping us with 8 ESFs, again we fought them off, but without being able to use the shields we'd have got 0 exp for it....... well rather we'd have got 0 exp for it under this suggestion and without spawn shield we'd simply have died without a chance.

But then that IS the biggest problem with PS2 that spawn rooms are DIRECTLY CAMPABLE by tanks and aircraft.



I've no idea why your server is bad, but ruining the game for everyone because your server is (seemingly) full of strange people just isn't sensible.

Indeed, removing exp doesn't add organisation - it just removes exp.



The idea that it's "worth a try" is a strange one, fixing the issues is one thing, trying something that is very likely to backfire and encourage people to play the Zerg side or just not play is another thing entirely.