Pump action shotgun nerf didn't change anything. At all.

Guys dont cry, other than the standard weapons are meant as sidegrades, so minimally better in a special environment, little worse on other environments.

I can guarantee that it DID do changes at longer ranges.
It is still (thankfully) a OHK in very CQC.

COF is wider and fire times longer. Much less effective than before from anything further than 4-5 meters...

You know it's quite funny seeing people cry about Pump actions when every faction has one of their own...

Pumps are less effective with slugs now, which is a good change, but the frustrating thing about them (i.e. run around corner, get instantly OHKO'd) is still around.

They probably can't nerf the damage on PA shotguns that much farther, but their magazines are still too big and by the time you account for recoil, their RoF isn't that far off the semi-auto shotguns (why the semis needed their RoF nerfed I do not understand.) If they shortened the magazine it at least wouldn't be possible for some HA to clear a whole room by running in and hipfiring.

In PS1 there was a one shot kill weapon, the Jack hammer triple shot. I never complained about it because it was a risk/reward thing.

The pumps are different.

The changes also mean that if you are outside of 10 meters or so with a pump-action you have zero chance against a player who is awake and can move a mouse. Just as I suspected people were whining simply because something killed them. They don't want balance, they want the game to be catered to them. They don't want to have to change playstyles, they don't want to have to deal with anything they think is 'unfair'. The pump-actions are borderline useless now, the 1 hit kill is the last thing they have. How it is currently there's almost no reason to use a pump-action over a semi-auto or auto simply because with the pump-action you give up absolutely all versatility in range for a marginal difference in TTK under 7 meters.

"Shotguns are only good at close range" is not a very good defence of their ohk potential considering everything important in this game happens in close range. Capping a base? You are forced in to shotgun range. Defending a base? You are forced in to shotgun range.

if i hear pumps near me, i always start to go some distance to be able to fight back.

Pumps are useless against max units due to their resistance to pellets. A max can take upwards of 7 point blank pump action shotgun shots. Your much better off with a SMG, C4 or a Rocket launcher. So if your facing shotty users grab a max, charge and give them a slap with your fists.

Funny, when we said the same thing about the NC MAX half the ppl on this forum were still crying OP OP.

I've owned the Claw since it was released, but waited for the nerf to use it seriously. I was off work, so with the exception of the server maint time, I was using it all day, primarily on my medic.

The truth is, it's situational, if you are guaranteed to be sub ~8m and the target won't have much room to maneuver it's good. In any other situation, practically any other weapon type would be preferable.

With average TTK for most weapons so incredibly low, the insta-gib of a well aimed pump shot isn't any different in reality than someone who gets to shoot first with a Lynx or Trac-5. The feeling may be less satisfying because you weren't afforded the opportunity to squeeze your trigger in vain as you died, but the end result is the same, you died.

Yea nerfs did nothing, I can do the same thing with my pump action as I could before.

If you are experienced with the PAS you WILL recognize a nerf!

The most important nerf was the rechamber time. It is extremely long in comparison to the PAS before the patch!
The range of OHKs has also drastically changed. Now you have to stick your pump directly into the face of your opponent to achieve a OHK.

I checked the TTK with my pump shotty as well as with my Pulsar C and right now, EVERY other weapon is better than the shotties as long as you stay out of the OHK range which is max 5-7 meters.
I think the nerf was really hard for the shotties - especially the new "crosshair". The changing of the crosshair regarding your movement/flying/walking makes me insane. (small circle, big circle, medium circle....and so on).

Due to the decrease of the OHK range the PAS lost its niche. That was CQC - and you could not doing anything outside the CQC range. Sadly even small rooms are too big to be competitive anymore with a shotgun.

I think I'm gonna buy the VX6-7 for my LA. This weapon should perform better.

I will agree with you on this, more open spaces would limit the effectiveness of shotguns in bases and cap areas. But this does not mean scrap the base to an open field, it means further distances between buildings, more rocks and random objects for cover but are still open on all sides. More ground clutter so to say and more distance between all the buildings will help cut down on the amount of shotguns running amuck.

What makes shotguns "unfair" is that they are the lowest TTK weapons (not to be slumped in with rocket launchers, grenades, or mines. Though they are all skill crunch.) They have half the TTK of the other predominant CQC weapon, the SMG. Why TTK makes a Difference in this game is because of clientside hit detection. Due to how it works and the latency involved there is about a 500ms difference between what you see and what the enemy does. Now when weapons have less TTK then the average time it takes for data to transfer that means players die before they know whats going on. This is because you die on said players screen, this data then takes ~200ms to be registered on the server (this gives players the same amount of time to kill after being dead. Latency is a b*tch.) Once the server knows your dead it kills off your ability to do damage / kill anyone and you drop. ~200ms you are dead and then you hear the shots fired. This gives players the impression that they are dieing to 1-2 shots from all weapons because all they hear is 1-2 shots if it takes ~550ms to kill someone. So dieing before you hear and even possibly see the enemy is a big game changer for how people react to deaths in FPS games. This also allows for players to die after they have reached cover and such because to the enemy they are still in the open for half a second. Mix that in with OHK weapons and its a mixing pot of rage and tears that cause the forums to explode.

Now my personal opinion on how the balance was done for shotguns and the MAX wasn't bad. Did it address the major issues? Yes! Believe it, it addressed the issue. Did it solve it? No they still hold an extremely low TTK for the way the game is built, giving them a strict advantage. Now they may not be fully fixed in my eyes but I do like to see SOE taking small steps to balance weapons instead of a huge nerf that smashes **** into the dirt. At least the players who bought shotguns don't feel like they wasted SC on a weapon they will never use again. But like I said, I don't feel they are in line quite yet and I don't think that OHK weapons will ever be considered balanced because of how base design works in this game and how clientside hit detection skews perspective from both sides on how a weapon behaves.

Yeah it was some strange choices they made with the nerfs, it doesn't make a lot of sense from a balance point of view, it makes more sense from a future weapons sale point of view perhaps.

This is so not true. I was thinking the same would still be happening but man those NC max are almost laughable now. I have probably solo'd 5 since the patch as TR and not been killed once. Before it would have been a death sentence every time.

I don't go in buildings anymore. I just sit outside and service things that need repairing.

My fixes:

• Make OHK range inside of 10 feet. Make it solely a CQC weapon.
• Let flak armor negate shotty damage. Just the idea that half the playerbase might be wearing flak armor would reduce the rampant use of shotties.
• Double the reload time when moving. Make aim more difficult from hip fire while moving.

When I see shotties used in CQC, I never see them sprinting and hip firing. They are always moving slowly and tactically.

lol I did see a change, it took 2 shots to kill me on my HA compared to the instagib it usually does, I wonder how many shots it would take if I pop'd my shield?

Forums: Nerf shotguns.
SOE: Okay.
Forums: Nerf shotguns more!
SOE: Could you wait like a week at least?

I killed the guy using the Uppercut from 15m away with my lowly GD-22S, as he helplessly tried to shoot back... I don't play infantry all that much but it does seem like they've lost something. Point blank type gunning is not really my cup of tea.