The end is nigh - Higby tweets Scattmax & shotgun 'balance' coming in GU06.

Honestly, I think they want to nerf auto-shotguns, because on average they are much more lethal than PA. I mean, yes, the PA has the capability to OHK, but there are not too many good players to use it like this consistently anyway, so I am sure the statistics for PAs do not show much OPness. The auto-shotguns, on the contrary, are completely skill-free, any ****** can kill anyone in CQC with it (and extended mag), and that probably shows in statistics. Same with shotgun maxes, with them, the problem is compounded by the fact that maxes have armor and cannot be OHKed, so they kill everyone in CQC with not much retaliation on average.

Not really, if you nerf they're rate of fire they're just bad Semis.

(edit) I didn't realize people viewed Auto Shotguns as OP as Pump Actions? They're worlds apart to me.

Then give them the same damage as the Jackhammer.

Just decrease the shotgun OHK range by a meter or 2. Baby steps are needed to balance this weapon.

...And so, after the evil witch Shotgun was killed by the Nerf Bat, the little skills Aim and Burst Control returned home, where they lived happily ever after.

Hurray for double standards, so the scattmax is broken but all shotguns are fine according to you? The thing that makes the NC max be called OP are the shotguns same ones you can get as infantry so the problem lies there. Either all shotguns are OP or neither of them are, you cant have it both ways (saying the max ones are op but the rest is fine). The only real difference between NC maxes and regular infantry with shotguns is that the max can take fare more small fire arms hits and it is a big slow target while the infantry is soft but has alot of mobility.

Also to the people that make such a big deal out of the NC maxes, those things were not nerfed till now because they dont impact the game nearly as much as everything else that got nerfed before and as such are not a priority. Someone else can post a spreadsheet of the data, it shows that maxes of any faction are pulled 5 times less than any tank/esf and they score 5 times less than tanks/esfs per hour. Add to that the fact that NC maxes are only really abused in bio labs, which represents 3 maps per continent and you can see why it took so long to address the issue (before anyone says they fight Nc maxes elsewhere im talking about huge spams happening often not some random fluke seldom happening in a tower fight for example).

Btw im NC player but just to avoid some moronic comment like "you dont want your OP maxes being nerfed derp" i have the stock max so i never even used nor care for the dual scattmax just cant stand all this misguided crying over something that is not as much a issue as people make it be on the forums.

I would disagree on that. I would have said it was about equal between the magrider and scatmax for complaining, well that is after the complaints about libs and lolpodding dropped from the top list. But scatmaxs have always been near the top of the forums for complaining.

As for the magrider being back to pre-nerf and there being fewer complaints, I would put that down to generally that all tanks now are just paper weight (main reason being AV turret introduction among others).

Shotguns should not be effective (effective meaning one-hit kill) beyond 3 meters, let alone 10 meters. And even within 3 meters, only a pump action should be able to instagib. These nerfs will be well deserved ones.

You do not know what statistics say. It is quite possible that the PA statistics do not show much OPness, if not too many PA users OHK their opponents consistently. What PA has is a theoretical potential for OPness (because theoretically someone can OHK billions of enemies without them returning fire), but what is happening in reality could be a completely different thing.

That could work, but I was hoping to see the JackHammer come out on top of this Shotgun "balance" pass.

I've used both extensively. From my own point of view, the PA has a kill potential that the Auto just can't match. The only upside is the reload speed on the Auto makes it nice for taking down VS MAXs, since you can't really assault an NC MAX with a shotgun. Maybe I just aim decently well, but I find most of my kills are 1/2 hit kills from proper positioning.

I truly agree with this.

I own all shotguns, and only the auto feels broken.
If I drop down or turn a corner and see enemies... emptying a clip in their -general direction- more or less guarantees I'll come out on top.

This isn't true of any of the others.

As a max unit you clearly have never run into a SCATmax just around the corner. Your dual mercy will take about 30% of his HP while he kills you in the 5m range in about 4/6 shots. (Even anti vehicle[dual nade launchers] will not kill a max. While i personally feel these should obliterate a max unit though not infantry]. Infantry do not stand a chance against a scatmax. Any LA that manages to c4 one before they get shotgunned get's a praise from me [unless the max is a ****]. Shooting a rocket in their face from far away is the general rule of thumb.

The pump action shotguns are a noobfriendly weapon aslong as you can aim a little anyone within the 5/10 meter range is gonna drop dead. The difficulty of having money come in while adding new things to the game is gonna be very hard to balance. Understand this from a costumer level, why would you buy a pump shotgun when the semi shotgun rips everything apart? Well lets just buff the pump shotguns so everyone buys them, then correct them. This is what allot of gaming companies do to their ingame cash shop items.

What a surprise. They obviously realise not one NC will buy their new flamethrower unless they nerf the current weapons.

Just like they realised they could make money off the account wide unlocks, with the NS11 carbine (not that that one is unbalanced, but the timing is just so obvious).

And like they realised they would sell a lot of Phoenix's if they made it a OHK on infantry.

I believe everyone who tried the new pump was surprised at how ridiculously fast the pump action works. Have you ever seen that in other fps games? It usually takes 3 times as long before you can fire again, because it is a 1 shot kill. Don't tell me they didn't know that.

Not happy with the direction this is going. I get they have to make money in some way, and the player numbers aren't what they hoped (server merges), but meh, if the balance is driven by the marketing department, we're in for a whole new ride.

Me too hopefully this is where they look at the Lasher and MCG too like they said they would 2 months ago. And for that matter the Battle rifles they said GU5 but maybe it got pushed to 6 for all those guns.

Wat? Were you making a point in there?

Semi-Auto shotguns are perfectly fine because it needs two body shots for a kill and the range needed for the kill are relativity short, very short in-fact.

However, Pump Action shotguns are a problem because it packs a lot of power, but it is way to effective. I mean, I've died in one shot from pump action shotgun more than 5m away which is pretty ridiculous. The perfect balance, in my opinion is,
1. Two body shots, first shot = critical low health if full hp.
2. One shot = Headshot like the semi-auto
3. Reduce effectiveness range to 5m or less. If 5m to 10m, damage reduced by 25%.

Scattermax, I do not know how to balance it, but in my personal opinion, reviving a max should not happen. I play Vanu max every one and while and I get multiple kills before I die and it is a fairly fast respawn.

A shame. Glad I didn't buy a shotgun now.

This change is long overdue and will really improve the game imo. Here's how I hope they handle the NC Max situation:

Currently the VS and TR dual AI Maxes have 120% the DPS of a single equivalent LMG, with the NC dual AI Maxes have 200% the DPS of a single equivalent infantry shotgun.

The NC dual AI Maxes should have their DPS nerfed down to 120% also. To compensate, they should be given bigger magazines and a tighter pellet spread so they have more flexibility and roughly the same killing power per mag. With these changes the NC dual AI Maxes will still dominate at close range, having an infantry TTK of 200-240ms instead of 0ms or "instant" kills they enjoy now. They will be more balanced in Max vs Max combat but would still win at close range and lose at medium range as now.

As for infantry shotguns, I think they're balanced overall, it's just that the level design means that all the important stuff happens in small rooms. Since it's easier to change the shotguns than the rooms, that's the way it'll have to be unfortunately. The pumps I think are a little OP though, they could go down to 8x143 per shot rather than 10x143, with a longer refire rate, perhaps 600 instead of 500. However they need to change the reload animation so it can be instantly interrupted.

As someone who uses the Pandora as a primary weapon in ALL combat scenarios, good. Shotguns are freaking amazing, but they render almost all other options pretty useless.

And it's about time for the MAX overhaul.

Yay...another possible nerf that will impact the LA the most.