Yup this is exactly the problem NC have at the moment, a broken Flinch mechanic that utterly favours high RoF weapons - it needs to be fixed in a way similar to what you say.
Id have to say that the ability of a weapon depends on the users playstyle. I know many people who shine playing a VS or TR heavy, yet when I tried both the classes I failed HARD. Instead, I made an NC heavy with a fully certed G-22. I average 5KDR in big battles with it. Although I thought about how this could work, I didn't fully understand why until I realized my playstyle in other games. I tend to excel at playing a heavily armored hard hitting class - with the draw back of lower mobility. This is because I prefer to take stupid risks OFTEN and see if they pay off. Naturally, an NC heavy would fit me best then. It just depends on the playstyle
This is really what makes them feel inferior especially in CQC. At long ranges, I feel like the NC weapons slightly outperform their counterparts. Because anyone with some FPS experience is used to countering vertical recoil with a slow mouse movement. But you can't really counter horizontal as easily.
Trust I have literally every lmg with every attachment. I also maintain a K/D of over 1 so it's not a Learn2Play issue (besides I'm not stating I don't kill stuff with NC LMG, just that I tend to kill more with other faction's LMG). I have lost a lot of respect for LevelCap for calling the GD-22s the best NC overall LMG. The anchor is so much better than GD-22S except for first shot recoil which only matters at long range. The fact that you suggest the GD-22S for CQB tells me you don't really know the strength and weaknesses of NC Weapons. The GD-22s used to be amazing in beta when it had better ROF but not anymore. Also, just because he showcases videos where he kills stuff with the GD-22S doesn't mean the GD-22S is good, just that he's good. And I bet he would do even better with the Pulsar LSW. The saw is a decent weapon, but its niche is long range, not my style of play. Scattmax is excellent CQB max, but that's not what this discussion is about.
If the Anchor isn't good enough CQC for you, SMGs (soon to be 2 of them), the now-useful Jackhammer and the three other shotguns all exist.
Good point. That really does make a world of difference. I agree it's not very useful. I mostly wanted to see just how much VS weapons were affected by range. Yeah I agree that each faction has different weapons for different situation, that's why I added the best and worst of each faction. I only averaged them to get a trend. It's been my experience that mastering recoil control and target leading is a lot more difficult with NC weapons than VS weapons. Not sure if its the jerkiness of high but infrequent recoil or the lower velocity but that's just how they feel to me. Even the SVA-88 which should in theory have a lot of recoil feels a lot easier to land hits with than the the NC6. The closest I ever get to that feeling of ease of use with NC is with the Anchor. As for the EM1, it's ROF doesn't compensate for it's low damage. For that reason I find I'm usually better off with the EM6.
I very much like the anchor. I sometimes miss the EM6's magazine size but at least the anchor has pretty quick reload. I find shotguns too limiting and are really only useful when defending a tower. I find SMG's peculiar in that they fit somewhere between shotguns and LMGs. I do prefer them to shotguns though because they have a bit more range and have way shorter reload times.
Actually in some cases it will. For example, if you don't make the first shot instant the T9 CARV has a (7 / (750 / 60) = 0.56s TTK within 10m, while the SAW has a (5 / (500/60)) 0.6s TTK within 10m. If you calculate TTK correctly, the CARV has a (6 / (750/60))=0.48s TTK and the SAW has a (4 / (500/60)) = 0.48s TTK. This isn't to say the SAW isn't much harder to use in CQC -- it definitely is -- but statistically it can do just as well as the CARV or Orion. I'm not good enough to do it, but a couple people in my outfit pretty consistently keep up 2+ or 3+ K/Ds in close range using only the SAW. Correcting the calculation doesn't always affect the ordering like that, but it generally brings lower-RoF, higher-damage weapons a lot closer to the faster RoF ones -- which is important if you care about the difference in TTK and not just the order. Mastering recoil control is unquestionably harder with the NC, but vertical recoil still CAN be countered. It's one of our negative faction traits, but I'd rather have one that raises the skill cap of our weapons than one you can do absolutely nothing about (e.g. VS damage degradation and horizontal recoil). Higher projectile speed is definitely an advantage no matter how you look at it -- but I do just fine with high-velocity ammo on my EM6 and SAW. Past 650 m/s (Ursa or NS-11 with HV ammo) you're outshooting the high-damage sniper rifles like the Longshot and RAMS, so projectile velocity shouldn't be a huge issue. Even if we just use your averaged velocities, the NC's projectiles are only about 5% slower overall. Well, as I said, the EM1/Polaris/Bull all pretty much suck -- but they suck about the same! I'm guessing they'll be buffed along with battle rifles, but who knows.
Thank you very much for sussing that out for me. I look at all the spreadsheets and my brain just goes numb. Numbers and I haven't been on good terms since I left college and started hiring people to do it for me. So the Ursa is ever so slightly more of what I'm looking for than the Flare. I trialed it and it felt great, but there's literally only one YouTube review of it and it lasts for all of 30 seconds with the result being 'unless you're rich, don't buy it', but there's probably 10x more Eidolon users than people who own and use and like the Ursa. So it makes me wanna wait out SOE and see if they need to sell some new LMGs to help pad their pocketbooks that meet the criteria I'm looking for. Sure am glad I didn't invest in Scout Rifles. SMGs lol. Edit: So now i'm back to using the Pulsar C until I can decide on the Ursa. It hits for the same and as Engi I can supply my own ammo.
I hear people saying this all the time, and I don't really understand why it would be so. If it's equal L-R horizontal recoil, then sure - it's random and can't be compensated for with human reaction speed. I know some guns are like that, but for most NC guns, the pull is mostly to the left or mostly to the right, and you should be able to compensate for that the same as for vertical. Anything I'm missing?
Re-read my post. I didn't suggest that you use the GD-22s. I simply say that "It really comes down to the skill of the user. He's primarily a Vanu player but he makes the GD-22s sing.". I would agree that he probably should have worded that video title better and instead of calling the guns he selected the 'best', he should have qualified it with something like 'If you're only going to buy one gun for your faction, this one should be it for best all-around HA use.". I'm getting the impression you didn't watch LCs video, because he does use the Pulsar LSW in it and does do even better with it, to the point where he calls it the best all-around LMG out of any faction. Again, he could have done better with his wording. Personally I use the SAW and I love it. It's got a big learning curve, but at medium to long range it's king, and that's exactly what suits my play style.
Yes. There are two (kind of) separate types of recoil. "Vertical" and horizontal. Vertical recoil can pull at an angle, and that angle can vary (randomly as far as we know). The EM6's vertical recoil pulls exactly vertical, the Gauss Rifle's vertical recoil pulls between 23 and 25 degrees right of vertical, and the GR-22's very aggressively right-biased "vertical" recoil pulls between 30 and 40 degrees right of vertical. Horizontal recoil pulls straight left or right with every shot, and is responsible for the jittering or shaking you see when firing full-auto with any automatic weapon. It's not precisely a random walk, otherwise you'd see some bursts pull left seven times and throw you way off. As far as we know it's affected by another stat called "horizontal recoil tolerance" which is smaller for longer-ranged weapons. Until developers fill us in on how these things work, the best guess is that it works how I described above with the Ursa and controls just how far off-center you can go. If you perfectly control the vertical recoil of a weapon that pulls left or right, it will still shake as much as a weapon with "balanced" (i.e. straight vertical) recoil but the same horizontal recoil stats -- contrary to the popular misconception often advanced by LevelCap that weapons with unbalanced vertical recoil are more accurate (true in his "home game" of Battlefield 3, not necessarily true in PS2).
Is it that British guy who's been trialing every weapon in Planetside 2 without attachments and then "reviewing" them all at once? XD
No, because, as it has been pointed in the thread linked at the beginning of this thread, people confuse horizontal recoil, because the only statistical site we have today, ps2.dynet.com, do NOT represent recoil correctly. in PS2, recoil works this way : * There is a upward recoil which has a magnitude. This magnitude is following an angle, often completely vertical, sometimes the angle is slightly going right or left. at each shot, the angle is varying between a min angle and a max angle. This upward recoil is the one represented on ps2.dynet.com. They give you the magnitude, and a general idea of the angle, in the form of arrows showing if the angle is fixed, or has different minimum and maximum angles, if these are around the pure vertical or angling left or right. They give you ONLY this recoil information BUT * on top of the vertical recoil there is a horizontal recoil added. It's like to calculate your new weapon sight position, SOE first move it by the vertical recoil amount, and then move it by the horizontal recoil amount. this horizontal is strictly following horizontal line, and has a random magnitude between -max and +max (ie, it can move the sight left or right randomly after applying the vertical recoil). The horizontal recoil magnitude parameter is not shown in ps2.dynet.com. As it is a random horizontal deviation that can go all the same left or right, it simply cannot be countered and represent a hard limit on weapon accuracy. When your target is smaller than this recoil magnitude, you count on luck to hit. This horizontal recoil parameter is the one affected by the Forward Grip Attachment. That's exactly why people are making test on forward grip and claim it doesn't make any change, because they expect it to affect the horizontal component of the vertical recoil (ie, change the angle to make it more toward pure vertical), when it only changes the pure horizontal recoil, ie reduce the magnitude of random horizontal deviation of your weapon sight. EDIT : dang, sniped by DuckSauce. GG!
Yup. I guess he's got a Cockney accent. I imagine him with a tophat and chimney brush doing the reviews. Pip pip cheerio!
Your best bet is to get opinions in-game from experienced Vanu players who have actually certed their weapon. I'm not sure how many times he trials them before sticking them in the review, but my guess is the guy has less than half an hour's worth of experience with each one.
Yeah I have and I get zero response. I've never even been killed by an Ursa as TR/NC or i'd ask them their thoughts. Not trying to derail here, but I made an Ursa thread and got a grand total of 3 replies and only 180 views, which leads me to believe that very few people actually use the gun. The 3 replies I got were positive, which is certainly better than bad reviews i guess. NEWay. NC is OP. Learn 2 Play. Pew Pew.
