ESF(fighters) are unbalanced, not the GALAXIES NOR THE LIBERATOR.

If you can't shoot down an ESF with a dual Buster MAX, you are just bad with the dual Burster MAX. I shoot down plenty of aircraft with the SINGLE Burster MAX.

I agree the Burster is fine, giving the Skyguard some 15% more damage per shot should probably solve this whole issue completely- all those fighters that barely get away would get blown up but those that fly defensively will be back after repairs and everyone's happy.

rocket pod spam is too fast and too accurate is the problem, you need more than one source of AA otherwise he A: kills you or B: runs away or most often C: kills you and then runs away. Jets are not bombers and this is ridiculous the way it currently is with jets crowding outside biolabs farming kills on defenders and hovering over spawn points decimating you, what jets should be primarily for is taking out other jets/libs/galaxies and protecting their own bigger planes from jets.

To actually take out a jet with the HA launchers requires serious teamwork, and that's if the jet doesn't see you and gun you down before popping flares.

AA is fine the way it is, any careless pilot is not going to be in the sky for long.

a lighting can swing through just as easily (if it minds where the HA is) and do a quick run and then get out and repair as well.
it takes 4 shotsish from that rocket launcher (if they are all dead on) and if the lighting's using its speed, it becomes increasingly hard to kill it.

If a bunch of lightnings team up its just as effective against a couple of HA, they are just overwhelmed, and if those lightnings are hiding behind rocks and evading shots, its the same thing.

Plus there is little cover in the air, so if your tower gets buzzed and you fail to let him come and leave with out pegging them, well then might just try aiming, ive died alot of times like that, just to getting to close to a large source of AA (much like what happens to lightnings when they near a buncha HA) and getting the crap blown outta me.

2 rockets take out a Lightning if at least one of them hits the rear.

2 rockets take out a Lightning if both hit the top.

2 rockets is about 5 seconds of combat, including the HA popping out in a slightly different position after reloading to avoid the Lightning's counterattack.

Also, if the Lightning is using its speed, it ain't shooting anything accurately.

And finally- if the Lightning gets the upper hand and chooses where and when to fight the HA, it'll win every time.

The same principals should apply to AA vs ESF combat.

There should be

• ESF AV rockets that do the current damage they do to tanks, but with next to no AOE, and slightly reduced dmg to infantry
• ESF AI rockets that do the current damage they do to infantry with a large AOE, but way less damage to armor and air
• ESF Rockets somewhere in the middle with a medium-small AOE with respectable damage to armor and infantry

Their counter may not kill them, but it certainly scares them off. The result is essentially the same, it forces them to retreat for some amount of time (depending on how far away they need to fly to safely repair/rearm).

As far as I'm concerned the problem is that AA isn't common, and isn't rewarded properly. For a role that is SO IMPORTANT to consistent success in this game, AA basically get the shaft. It's a boring job, and you get jack**** for doing it.

I think a good solution would be to give AA guns XP for every hit landed or something along those lines -- that way, even if you don't get the kill, you will still stay competitive cert-wise. Your K/D ratio might not be as good as that derpy HA emptying his clip in the corridor next to you, but you'll be gaining XP at a similar rate.

More people would play AA. ESF would have a much harder time out-maneuvering them.

As for more weapon-specific stuff, the Skyguard clearly needs a buff. The base-mounted cannons could use a small buff. Burster MAX cannons and the Skyguard should be able to damage infantry. Not as effectively as regular weaponry mind you, but they should at least have the chance to defend themselves solo. The fact that this big cannon on my arm can pierce metal but can't break skin is ridiculous.

My 2 cents. Buff before nerf.

Also, dramatically increasing the damage on AA weaponry would be a mistake. Nobody would be flying at that point, and then aircraft would become pointless.

I agree that ESFs are a problem, but only in that they are tanky. Attack craft are supposed to be powerful; but these have too much health.

Ive found one of the main issues is people on the ground don't fire at ESFs. If you have 10 infantry open up with their carbines or LMGs, that ESF will either go down or have to run. Two clips at close range on my medic will put a mossie to half health - you can fight back, fire at will!

IMHO its pretty well balanced. I like that air is how you kill air and ground based anti air is more area denial or air space control. I think the only change that needs to be made is for cockpit shots from small arms should hit the pilot. This would help a ton with the low hovering rocket spam that is so annoying. While leaving the current balance the same.

They really aren't that Tanky. People exaggerate how survivable they are. It's the mobility that makes them seem so survivable. If you sit there and eat 10-15 bullets from a Burster MAX or base mounted AA, you will explode. Obviously no Pilot does that, but they really don't have much health, they are just hard to hit.

We don't need a dramatic increase in AA weapon damage, in fact only the Skyguard needs a buff- of 15% per shot maybe... Maybe 20 to offset the armor upgrades ESFs are getting.

The AA turret also sucks, so a 5 or 10% in damage per shot would at least allow it to do something.

It's not like AA guys would want to have no fly zones near them- who would they shoot at?

Dunno, I think one shotting anything in the game except for top armor MBTs(maybe), galaxies, and max blockade armor sunderers(maybe) is a little bit overpowered on the Liberator's part.

I'm one of those AA maxes reaping glorious fields of XP

I just saw today a 2 liberators and 3 reavers get wiped out by 2-3 surprise dual burster maxes emerging from those little buildings in bases. Whole conflict lasted propably around 15 seconds. ESF has no change against a decent dual burster max due to rendering distance being minimal and bursters causing a ton of damage to ESF on hit. Been seeing some really good burster MAXes lately who dont shoot at every air unit they see but lure you closer to the ground and then open fire at medium range. Usually newbs just spam their shots at some far away plane and wonder why the air units retreat and later return prepared with rocket pods on their exact location.

Op is sadly wrong. Its the rocket pods that are the problem and the fact the walker is a joke. The flak doesnt give xp for doing its job- warding off and damaging air craft. And flak in this game is inaccurate to stupidity.

Increase flak accuracy, give its users damage xp ( opposite of heal/repair) and fix the walker to effectiveness. And reduce rocketpod damage.

Also for AV rockets vs AI- AI would have HE shell type explosion while AV wouldn't explode. AI pods would do little to armor but AV would rip through it. And to try preventing A2A rocket pods, give the AV which would tear planes apart a heavy/slow feel with lots of drop while AI would be small and fast with flat trajectories

I just think AA turrets need a boost in health.

We tried buffing the hell out of AA in beta, it led to constant, massive tank swarms. Infantry had no place outside of bio labs and the early stages of an amp/tech assault.

The AA is balanced on a macro, not micro scale, assuming that multiple AA will in fact be shooting at a target. However, as AA is so unrewarding on an individual basis, it more often than not is just that one guy with his burster, or that one guy in a turret.

We don't want to create no-fly zones wherever there is AA, but we do need to make playing AA more rewarding, maybe EXP per hit or some such.

People keep trying to compare ESFs to lightnings and HA vs tank to AA vs Air and all sorts of other utterly crazy ideas.

People you simply cannot compare these things. Air is a totally different domain, pilots are operating in a different type of theatre and aa impacts that theatre in a unique way. If you haven't done so I encourage anyone with strong views on this subject to spend a few days playing as an air unit (or an aa unit). I do both regularly although I prefer being in the air, I also spend plenty of time humping it with the foot sloggers as an engineer, Sunderer driver and occasional tank driver. So I've seen the game from all the angles and I can say for sure that the air play and ground play are worlds apart. Flying involves all sorts of drawbacks as well as some nice advantages, thats just from the fact you are up in the sky and moving fast.

What you find is that as an aircraft you are potentially under attack all the time, enemy fighters, libs, aa towers, bursters, skyguards, there is so much out there that can hurt you and you cover so much territory so quickly you are constantly being exposed to new threats. Also your situational awareness is greatly reduced because you are up in the air and most of the time you have to make do with looking in the direction you are going. Honestly it may seem like ESFs have it easy but I can tell you that is far from being true, an ESF pilots in game life is stress and panic and constant danger, its also one of the worst ways to earn certs unless you get a good run with rocket pods.

You can tell the OP has never left his warp gate in an ESF and loitered over a medium/large battle.

Love it, keep your forumside posts coming but add QQ in the title somewhere so I know to skip it.

Today I got a trial for the second AA gun for the VS MAX, and I spent the time at a huge battle doing anti air work next to one of the sunderers we were using to attack. Lots of targets to practice and check for myself how useful AA is.

I didn't manage to down one single aircraft. Many "critical assist" on the ones who were finished by friendly fighters, but that's all.

I know you're thinking that I'm just bad at shooting, and you'd be right in most circumstances, except two of them. On those two occasions, a reaver approached slowly the sunderer and as soon it was in range I started unloading both guns. I hit with every. Single. Shell. But he had time to unload the rockets at low altitude, hitting the sunderer with all of them, use the afterburner and flee while I was reloading.

I laughed at the absurdity of the situation. A dedicated AA setup, virtually useless for any other task, costing certs and resources, wasn't even able to deter the most fragile air unit from attacking at their leisure even firing with perfect accuracy. I'll also laugh at however who posts that ESFs' health is fine.