[Guide] How to get your [Suggestion] seen & read by Devs

Please consider reading this thread in full for context. If you are short of time and just want to get right to posting, scroll down until you find the 'How To Post' section.

I'm someone who has too much time on their hands, so I often come to the official Planetside 2 forum to read the Gameplay Discussion section just to see what brand spanking new and interesting [Suggestion]s the players have come up with.

Often times I'll come across posts that are named something that alludes to content hidden within the thread, and while sometimes I might click on these threads out of curiosity, most of the time I just pass them by. This is not because I don't think the ideas are good or bad, but just because my time spent on here has led to me seeing a lot of posts like these that are just filled with whining about how a weapon, vehicle, faction, etc. is bugged, broken, over powered, etc. and then legions of veteran players coming to explain things to them.

For the most part, I simply respond with 'meh' and move on when I see these threads, never lifting a finger to do anything about it. However, I feel people should begin to realize: there's a good chance the Devs are doing that too.

Let's talk real life for a moment. We all know (or at least most of us do) that when you submit a job application, you are most likely one of hundreds that have submitted said application. Then the employers get people to sift through those hundreds of new applications, and they usually only read the first sentence of a cover letter before deciding if the rest of the application is worth their time.

Another example would simply be beta testing a game. If you submit a bug report, devs usually like for you to say what the problem is within the topic without them having to click and read your submission, because it's possible they're already aware of the issue and your additional input is unnecessary.

Ultimately, reading through threads on here is a part of their job... but this game is now 5 years running, so you can imagine some of the ideas they see are ideas they have seen before and again. As a result, they are more likely to overlook threads that aren't clear on what the player is looking for, or if it is hinted that players are talking about something they have seen before.

While it is part of their job, it is not the only part of their job. Therefore, they are not required to spend time sifting through all of the words and nonsense on here to find the suggestion people are making. Don't make them crack the peanut to get the nut on the inside, just give them what they're looking for and don't waste their time.

With all that said, let's move on to...

How To Post A [Suggestion] Thread

Getting Dev Attention

1) When posting a thread, post what the issue is within the thread name. Don't be cryptic or treat it like a cliffhanger; this isn't a novel we're reading, it's something you'd like to draw Dev attention to. Remember: Devs are usually working when they read the forum, so limit the time they need to spend reading so they can get back to making those content fixes or new weapons.

2) Be professional, do your research, and come to them with reasons why your idea is a good alternative to what we have now. If you make a post because you're angry and just want to whine or insult other players, developers won't bother reading the thread. Remember: this is a part of their job, and their job isn't to waste time patting you on the head and telling you it will be okay.

3) Ask others around you if your idea is a good one. Ask your platoon, ask your outfit, ask your grandma! Sometimes an idea is a really good one and people will flock to your thread to support you... but we all have bad ideas from time to time, so if people tell you your idea is a bad one, please just drop it and don't make a post.

4) Sort your thread into sections for easy reading. State what the issue is, how it affects the game, and how you feel the issue can be fixed. Provide details and examples, but most importantly, be realistic. Don't ask for something that blatantly favors the faction you play, because that's not fixing; that's replacing one problem with another.

5) Don't make multiple posts about the same thing, as this is spamming... and just like spam email, it annoys people. If you feel like the topic you're discussing has the potential to have multiple updates, consider replying to your initial thread with a [Placeholder for updates] response so you can edit it with new information whenever you please. Additionally, only 'bump' a topic if a new, relevant piece of information has been added or updated to your thread, and always disclose what the new information is within the bump (just like how patches will give a list of relevant patch notes).

6) Be patient. As you may have noticed, there are a lot of suggestions in the Gameplay Discussion section. Additionally, Devs might see the post you made, but they won't offer a response unless they feel like the thread requires their input. Most of the time if they agree with your idea, best case scenario is: you see it implemented into the game at some point. Like with most things, it all comes down to time and patience.

7) Read the Forum Guidelines. Everyone should do this at least once every few months for a refresher on what is and is not okay in this section of the forum. Even if you feel like it's just a set of rules to follow for the sake of following rules, remember this was written by an employee... so if this isn't a solid foundation to follow for getting your thread noticed, I don't know what is.

Example of a Dev-Friendly Thread

[Suggestion] Drop Pods Explode like C4 Upon Landing

[What Is]
In their current state, Drop Pods are great for getting into a fight if you and your squad have died or if they simply need to return to an area.

[What Can Be]
I propose they be given an explosive radius upon landing, because you're dropping from the sky from a long distance at great speed. There should be some kind of area of effect around the pod when it lands, so why not C4?

Pros:

• Bullet points telling why it's a good idea.

Cons:

• Bullet points telling why it could become a problem.

[Final Notes]
Thank you for reading my thread and I hope you consider this idea.
(Insert any additional final notes you want the Devs to read).

[Disclaimer: I am not proposing to have exploding drop pods; this is simply an example format for people to consider following.]

wait the devs actually look at their own forums?

Of course!

It's kind of like when an author completes a novel and generates a fan base. They might see people talking about what they've made, but never directly involve themselves in the discussions.

So while we talk about ideas, issues, etc. within the game, the Devs will poke their heads in for a read, but they won't always say something unless they feel it requires their involvement.

you mean like on reddit where they reply to posts frequently and repeatedly state that they don't like their own offical forums?

One other note I should have made, but failed to do so before reaching the 30 minute edit restriction:

8) Make sure to proof read your post before posting it. Make sure it makes sense, fix any typos you have made, and delete any lines of text you feel are irrelevant or have been stated elsewhere in your thread.

I had to proof read and rewrite a lot of my own post to keep it short and ensure it made sense for readers coming into my thread. As a result, I was sitting here writing this guide for about an hour, just because there was a lot I needed to rewrite, stuff that had been stated elsewhere, and points I made that I felt weren't terribly necessary and could be overlooked. But still, that's almost a full hour working on a single thread to ensure people had an easy read and understood the points I was trying to make.

If people mimic that behavior with their own suggestion threads, it will be a heck of a lot easier for the Devs to sit down and read through them.

Lmao you think they actually listen?
How sweet you summer children are.

This is what I don't understand. If they like how reddit works, then just change PS2 forums to be more like reddit. Or just don't have official forums. If they don't read anything here, and don't post anything, then it's a waste of resources to babysit the place. I realize that posting on here is futile, but it's more entertaining than the game, so I'll stick around. Reddit turns in to such an echo chamber, I much prefer how this forum works.

Now you need to ask yourself the question: do they dislike their own forum because of how they have it set up, or because of how the players have treated it?

Additionally, I'd like to know if said devs posting on Reddit are the actual devs or accounts made using their names by random players. I've seen people hijack the names of actual devs, youtubers, etc. in the past and actually offer it back to them as a ransom for something, so I'd like to hear from the devs themselves if they are over there saying that.

If it turns out to be true, then all I can say is: as your signature suggests, the grass is greener on the other side... but that's only because they maintain it better. If you want your own grass to be greener, you simply need to put more effort into it.

no actual devs with actual dev tags. and i'm sorry, but last time i checked i wasn't the one who had admin rights and code access to this forum, so why am i responsible for fixing the forums instead of the devs?

Devs have a red daybreak tag, verified by the mods. Only really wrel posts on there, with rare showings by nick and that new guy.
You can go ask them if you want.

I prefer not to.

If they are indeed verified devs and they are saying that about their own forum, then I can only stick to what I said before:

The grass is greener on the other side, but if you put more work into maintaining yours, it will be just as green if not greener.

Anyhow, I remain hopeful that the Devs are paying attention to this section, so I like to make life easier on them by having a structured [Suggestion] layout for people to follow.

Bullcrap hypocrisy post trying to degrade the forum to a suggestion postal system - it is a discussion board, other people are supposed to read and pitch in too! Writing the thread so as to foster a lengthy discussion should be more effective in getting the devs to read. Not only because a high click count proves the originality and/or eligibility of the suggestion, but because people vote with their wallet and if the devs disappoint the masses they lose their revenue and/or job.

TL;DR: Post it on Reddit.

People can still respond to and discuss a topic while making something easier for developers to read. I'm not saying a suggestion should be posted and then never have any discussion go into it, nor that the threads themselves should be locked the moment it's posted. I'm not really sure why you call it hypocrisy or degradation; it's merely a setup to help people create more structured suggestion threads so developers (and readers) have an easier time going through it. Really it seems like you're just throwing big words out there to sound smarter with your argument.

Number of pages or views don't always equal a good discussion. Heck, this guide hasn't even been able to go through one page without people resorting to insulting me. This is what's to be expected in the discussion threads, so what ultimately matters is that first post and how well set up it is. And no, high views and/or page counts do not prove originality, it simply proves that it is either a popular idea or that it is so dumb that everyone wants to voice their opinion on why it's dumb.

Most of the time when I see a smart idea posted on this site, people never say anything... or if they do, it lasts for only a page or two and then it's buried forever. The bad ideas are the ones that have people take off in conversations that last multiple pages, because some things are suggested that are good from the bad, then people offer a counter point and so forth. But when a well thought out idea comes up and people present it well, there's nothing to comment on. A good idea gets limited attention, so to say a lot of pages or views means it's a great idea is a fallacy.

When the core message is "I don't take the time to read other peoples' posts, but expect them to read mine", I call it hypocrisy. Per definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy)

So let me point out some genuinely hypocritical things:

• You broke your rule 1 by deviating from the thread title, rather providing a "How To Post A [Suggestion] Thread"
• You broke your rule 2, even when writing it, even simply because it is the devs job to read insulting threads and censor those
• Who have you asked if whether or not this post is a good one? Are all people who disagree big-mouthed?
• The template provided does not concur with rule 4

Degrading because the structure feels like oppression to the NC players (1/3rd of the player base) is incomplete, not good enough (by my oppinion), and ineffective as shorter posts might be feasible.

I never said I expect people to read mine. You can read my stuff if you want, just like I can read your stuff if I want. I can choose not to read a post that is clearly dedicated to whining about overpowered, unfair, etc. mechanics if I feel like it, just like how you can decide if you want to jump in head first and complain about the same thing.

It is not hypocrisy to have a preference for certain discussions.

First, allow me to state: I never said these were rules, I said they were examples and suggestions. If they were rules, I'd be a developer, this would be a sticky thread, and it would be closed and not open to discussion. The whole point of this being a [Guide] is to provide people with some helpful tips and something to consider following down the line, not something that is intended for ruling the forum with an iron fist.

If someone posts a game guide offering tips on how to go about performing an activity in the game, are you always going to follow what they say to the letter? No. Heck, some people won't even bother reading said game guide because they already know how they want to go about doing an activity in a game. The guide is simply there to help players who can't figure it out and to offer ways to help them. End point: these aren't rules, they're suggestions.

Please try to calm down and stop looking at the things I post as ways to attack me or break down what I've said, else I will simply cease talking to you.

With that said...

1) This is a guide, not a suggestion. I don't expect a developer to come in here looking for game mechanic changes or suggestions; I fully expected only players and frequent forum viewers to visit this page to see what was written within.

2) I'm not sure how I broke this 'rule' as you put it. Again, this thread is intended for non-devs to provide an option for structure in their suggestion posts. If devs are reading this, great! But ultimately I feel their time can be spent reading something pertaining to game effects and the community.

3) Again, this is not a Suggestion thread - this is a guide. Some people like having guides to work off of, others don't. I simply posted this to offer an option to those who want to have more structure in their posts and/or to get the attention of the developers. I'm working off a system that is used for testing games to inform developers of bugs in their alpha/beta games, and as I said before, sometimes a topic name says all the developers need to see to understand it's something that's already in the works or something that requires their attention. No developer wants to see a bug report that simply reads 'This bug is really annoying!' and inside it says something they've been aware of for two months.

If this were a Suggestion thread, I certainly would have gone to people to ask for feedback before posting it. I am not prone to making knee-jerk posts unless it's just something silly (such as my sunderer trebuchet idea).

4) The template is an EXAMPLE. IE: It's something to work off of and build upon. I'm not saying people should follow it to the letter and never create their own ideas to go with it. Again: something to consider following, not a rule.

... and the phrase "Please consider reading this thread in full for context..." does not ring a bell?

For the people who decide to read it. As you can see by one of the responses this thread has received above, someone simply said 'TL;DR'. I'm not blind to the fact that a lot of people these days aren't interested in reading a lot of stuff just to get to what they want to know right away, but the examples highlighted in yellow can be taken out of context if people only read those and don't bother with the rest of the thread.

But again, I didn't say I expected people to read it, I simply asked them to consider it. Consider, ask, request, etc. so people won't take things out of context.

I also said in the highlighted text that if people were short of time, skip directly ahead to the 'How To' area. In other words: that orange text was there to say 'if you are going to read the highlighted stuff, read all of it. Don't just read one line and take it out of context.'

It wasn't a request to read my thread - it was a request not to take things out of context.

Excuse me, English is not my first language but I did interpret that part as a request/encouragement/expectation. Similarly to when a tourist guide tells to "Please do as I say ...", a flight attendant tells to "Please fasten your seatbelts", etc. that is an instruction that people are expected to carry out or else be considered as rude or inappropriate.

In this respect, to keep the thread constructive, one thing I would like to add is that I find starting a thread as such to perhaps be a bad idea. Often when I sift through threads to read myself, I only hover the mouse over the title before clicking it. Doing so shows a small excerpt from the start of the post, the first 3-4 sentences, and assists in deciding whether or not a post is worth one's time. Quite frankly if I only see letter spam, ranting, unreasonableness, etc. in the first paragraph I might pass on the thread. Therefore I think it can be a good practice to start the post with an abstract instead of a disclaimer, conveying its core message in the first sentences.

Edit: as a guiding suggestion:
8) Start the post in a direct and concise manner, alternatively with a small summary. Often readers only read the first sentences and the forum has a nice mechanic for that, use it to make your point.