[Guide] [Video] Destroy any tank in 4 seconds with your ESF.

Oh, then I think we can arrive at a compromise.

If kills aren't important, then nerf A2G to the point where they can only "deter" ground units but not kill anything. Make it so that all A2G weapons will only do a fraction of damage to ground units, so that A2G will never get a killing blow.

Because kills aren't important right? I'm sure people will just be as happy to fly A2G missions knowing that they're never meant to kill things and are only there to provide overall support to their team.

When you realize how horrible that would be to A2G, you will understand why the same exact reasoning is horrible to AA.

If we had a weapon to almost instantly reduce infantry HP to near death, don't you think it would be OP? The LOLpods were nerfed to such against MBTs actually.

And I play AA more than I play A2G. I used to love the Striker, but ever since it got nerfed... Skyguards need a buff, sure. But the fact that Skyguards and rangers are UP doesn't give it the right to nerf air. No no no. You BUFF skyguards instead.

What I'd imagine is that all air units would just get weapons that take off a fraction of a target's remaining health.

For example, say rocketpods took off 1/10HP from a 100HP infantryman.

The first hit would take off 10HP, leaving the infantryman with 90HP.
The second hit would take off 9HP (10% of 90 is 9), leaving the infantryman with 81HP.
The third hit would take off 8.1HP, leaving the infantryman with 72.9HP.
And so on.

So in this way A2G weapons would never be able to kill a ground unit, because they could never take off 100% of the target's HP. That would make them a PS2 "deterrent" and not a killer, because units under fire from A2G would have to retreat to heal/repair but would not be under lethal threat from the A2G by itself.

I'm good with that.

Either way:

AA should be as effective in killing aircraft as aircraft are at killing ground units.

Whether you do that by nerfing aircraft or buffing AA... I'm satisfied no matter which change is made assuming it reaches parity. But there certainly need to be changes made.

Yes, it's possible to kill even a skyguard w/an esf in the right situation and with pretty skilled flying. But I have seen skyguard operators that are not just around rocks, canyons...but on hills, that can shut down hex in every direction and you aren't gonna pull this on them at that time, and rarely any other time...and a lot of encounters somewhere in-between w/factors of experience, skill, situational awareness, topography, etc.

My gf who also plays just loves skyguard, not bad with one, but is always support role......kills a ton of air, and quite a bit of inf/vehicles with it. Then I see the folks , even last nite on Connery, that try and use them to actually hunt air solo, with surprisingly good results, even outside the NC warpgate, till some form of organization of multiple esf's, and/or Libs n tanks.

A skyguard is lethal to an esf, most of the time, in the right range and los..... but when you combine AA turrets, walkers, burster maxes, other freakin air { i hate daltons}, G2A Lockons, dumbfires, every bullet {died in esf showing pistol got the kill more than once}, tank rounds, 2ndaries....throw in ground, trees, buildings, depression (suicide huge killer of air}... add all those damage sources, THEN, if you add any kind of coordination like selected target, it's a wonder there's any air flying at all, imho. I look at solo skyguard kinda like playing engineer, more support...but they scale w/coordination amazingly well. Saw some TR guys a couple months ago, odd location, a mossie just doing noob maneuver stuff over my faction territory... the 2 skyguards + walker sundy+ burster max ruined what I thought was an easy kill. They did this for hours to enemy aircraft and forces, they killed me multiple times as I tried to get at least get revenge on the bait mossie, nope. Half a squad, and not the first I've seen, found creative ways to bring their targets to them....remember you aren't married to any loadout, class, vehicle, explosive...there is nothing that is supposed to be the one weapon the rule them all in all situations....maybe a skyguard in it's current form should cost 50 resources less, so people think of it as more disposable...it just doesn't take that long to recover the resources, and if you have full resources...and your platoon leader says we're helping defend XXXXX 3000km away, give it up and go, don't be bored driving there, or waiting around for air...be in a position to do something else....there isn't always air, the only thing there always is in defense/capture,is infantry. Vehicles, whether ground or air, really, should be supporting that infantry play. The sandbox aspect of this game also allows for more solo or coordinated, lone wolf play, which can be very frustrating for those that are thinking/positioned/fighting the enemy for those base objectives...and a swarm of aircraft of the 3rd faction not even closely involved in the base, descend en mass and kill every every aircraft and vehicle that were involved in the fight.

I feel like this is a bit misleading because what the two videos really amount too is extremely situational circumstances where you can fly behind enemy lines without enemy harassment (from Flak, other ESF's or Lock ons) and fly 20 M off the ground setting yourself up from easy pickings from any semi competent tanker. In the time you are gliding in while your hornets are reloading anyone half way decent is going to blast you out of the air, but luckily in planetside there are plenty of times where the brain dead masses run together.

The second video was extra bad because it didn't really show how hornets beat a skyguard, it showed how players who have zero situational awareness will literally fall for the same thing time after time to the point where you didn't even try to change up your angle of attack.

seat switching is not the same thing as dual weapons platform, because if those vehicles were fully maned they could not benefit from that,
the esf has 2 weaponsets on 1 seat, a lib has 3 weapons a gal has 4? but not 2 on driver seat,,,,
if a tank could control the main gun and secondary and could swap this way ,,,,,,,

esfs plainly are broken, the fastest most maneuverable platform which has the most guns on one chair that can reload with out the weapon equipped, the driver has 2 scope types on their seat, 2 activatable ability's, with out equipping one making rockets viable,
even the fact that air gets night scopes and thermal access is ridiculous,

The Harasser beneftis from it. As does any Vehicle where the driver starts the Reload process prior to exiting their Vehicle.

Having 0, 1, 2, or more Firing options for a Unit is not what makes a Uint OP. It's the overall power level of the Unit.

TRAP-M1 has THREE Firing optoins, and it's garbage.

Every non-default Unit/Weapon seeing major use in either Standard Play or Server Smash is broken. Players have migrated to using broken units.

This is pretty standard in a PvP game.

I completely Agree that ESFs are OP in the Standard Game... but I also think HAs, Medics, Maxs, MBTs, Harassers, Libs, Gals, and Squad Beacons are also OP.

How is this ridiculous? All Vehicles get Thermal and Night Vision.

Even Flash gets them. Even though Flash drivers are just sitting on it with no Vehicle windshield HUD.

1 I believe I addressed seat switching enough, you brought nothing new to this with the harasser.
2 infantry select fire is not a vehicle system. even if it were grenade launchers would be a better comparison, which is still not acceptable,
3 This is not a standard pvp game, not even close it pushes the boundaries in every way on the issues of balance, and air is exemplary of what problems can occur because of the innate influence they have on battles, I say this mainly as a tribute to network ingenuity of the games creators, "I completely Agree that ESFs are OP in the Standard Game(...)" what are you arguing again?
4 The ability to move faster and acquire targets better than any thing else while having more firepower, and access to superior visual contrast is a bad combination I don't believe vehicles should have thermal sights, it is simply a trump card against infantry but in esfs they are especially problematic,

What?!

You said "seat switching is not the same thing as dual weapons platform, because if those vehicles were fully maned they could not benefit from that". But a fully manned Harasser *is* 2/3, with the gunner swapping back and forth from between gunning and repairing in the 3rd seat.

If you're just gonna ignore relevant information, then there really no point in discussing this with you. Hopefully others reading my posts can get more out of relevant information.

So you don't think that Infantry with 2 Weaponsets on 1 Gun is an advantage?

I don't have a problem with changing other Vehicles to the 2 Weaponset on 1 Seat system. Give the players more options to deal with their needs. Nerf their existing guns and split their attributes over the new Weaponsets. Choose 2 options from the following for each Weaponset:

A) Useless vs. all groups; provides extended duration or quicker activation for Ability when seat is manned (may only be selected once)
B) Very Good vs. 1 group; Good vs. 1 group; Useless vs. the rest
C) Good vs. 1 Group; Ok vs. 4 groups; Bad vs. the rest

Groups:
1) Target Group:
2) Non-Max Infantry
3) Max Infantry
4) Tanks
5) ESFs/Valkyrie
6) Libs/Gals
7) Sunderers
8) Harassers

I am arguing:
1) resolving Loading (and being locked into the Load sequence and unable to cancel it) once started is standard for all Vehicles. They do not require the active manual Loading that Infantry do, and the Loading cannot be cancelled by swapping what's active the way Infantry can.
2) the number of Weaponsets on 1 Seat does not make a unit OP. It's the power and usefulness of the Weaponset/Weaponsets for that Seat and other Seats in the Unit.
3) ESF, HAs, Medics, Maxs, MBTs, Harassers, Libs, Gals, and Squad Beacons are all OP/broken Units in the Standard Game. The Standard Game and Server Smash are both mostly players using broken Units or broken Loadouts or counters to broken Units.

So you want to get rid of Thermal for all Vehicles?

Because simply escaping AA as an ESF counts as a win too. I'll often fly over areas with heavy amounts of AA knowing I'll get no kills, or even land any shots, simply because all of those people are removed from the ground battle to deal with my flying around in circles. If they leave me alone, I'll swoop on them until they're after me again.

I also consider assists to be a win in an ESF, considering that the target probably would not have died otherwise. All ESF's like to pick off that MBT that successfully escaped enemy ground, but it's just about as effective to empty your nosegun in a full health tank that's dueling a friendly tank just to give your ally that needed boost.

Actually, no. The problem is that if AA was on equal footing to air there would be no viable reason to pull air. They've already tried this, in fact. Closer to release, A2G was WAY stronger, but it was almost useless because AA could usually get the kill on aircraft before they escape. AA can hide just about anywhere and still be effective. Air can't hide and shoot at the same time.

And really, do you honestly struggle THAT much with AA? Do you seriously never get kills? Not even one? The difference isn't power, it's numbers. There are far fewer air targets than there are ground; naturally you'll get more kills with air.

IMO non-wire guided hornets would be way, way more OP

You cant balance weapons around skill. This pilot is pretty skilled so calling for nerfs is stupid. I've tried flying and its almost impossible for me to actually turn it or even land it without it blowing up the control system is so woefully bad. So skill will always win IMO.

Plus as far as I can tell, Skyguards arent meant to be a 1v1 weapon, its air denial rather than air kill - air kill is the role of the other air units. If it was a true hard counter then it wouldnt be so weak and vulnerable. A lib can take a skyguard apart without even breaking a sweat.

Sweet video. Crazy tank destroying skills you got there.

You forget the fact mosquito is the best for vertical chassis hovering, scytche is all messed up in this inclination, making harder all the process.
Vanguard has the shield, as you said in the video, so it's better disengage.
Once again, the most susceptible faction to this technique is the Vanu, since a magrider can't inclinate the gun too vertically and to turn, they have to move around the chassis. The only thing to do, if you're in a magrider is to use the afterbuner and try and run.

Tank HE is so garbage against infantry these days the Skyguard is a better AI option for Lightnings. Under your logic, obviously HE is designed to be an SC trap while Skyguards have been the premier Lightning AI option all along!

you just can't hover in 45+ degrees of inclination with a Scytche, every time you try, or you miss the target, or you crash!

If you fly this low around my tank you might not have an ESF left.

Its not really the same thing, the most obvious reason why is that you can't move when you switch out of the driver seat, and the only time a harasser gunner switches to the rumble seat is when they're running away, and thus are no longer a threat. Also none of my secondaries are as powerful as the ESF secondaries outside of the AV ones, but if you're running AP then its kind of a pointless swap anyways.

ESFs have a serious balance issue due to their secondaries, the ability to maintain full AA effectiveness while also having full ATG capabilities in a single person vehicle is horrible balance.

Well.... yeah.
I see nothing wrong with that.

This is REAL high risk/reward.

Your degree of approach, accuracy, and crashing is completely up to the ESF user and does not have to do with anything about the ESF because ESF are always stable [no wind currents or any counter acting force physics] and if you choose to crash into a stationary object with a VTOL aircraft that can change directions in seconds then it's a L2P issue, can be 100% avoided.

Also regarding your earlier post, it is well known knowledge that Reaves have the best V-Thrust so I'm guessing your new then.