I hate to be that guy, but...

One of the less documented changes was the fact that AMS shield also increases the shots to kill from an AP tank as well. We have to burn the shield down, then do damage. So a deployed AMS with shield has already been buffed. Honestly, the default armor.... ie: repair, ammo, ams shield (undeployed)... is pretty squishy to an AP/AP tank of any kind. It's the blockade armor option that makes it worriesome... but that's only in extreme CQC fights.

A good tanker can tell by how the Sunderer is driving whether its a battle-bus or a quick-snack. One of the main issues is the amount of damage they can soak combined with the mobility to get to the rear MBT weakspot. A possible change to this would be adding a speed modifier when using blockade armor (maybe -10 kph?) or a reduction to the blockade mitigation.

I don't think anything else needs to be worked on... and to be completely honest, I don't have much of a problem with the occasional battle-sundy...

Actually you got it a bit backwards. Fury is the AI option with some light armor damage and Buldog is the AI option with medium armor damage.

I see 30 tanks in this game for every Sunderer. And the vast majority of those have only 1 person in them. Fully crewed tanks are extremely rare in this game, while a Sunderer requires at LEAST three people to be effective.

No to the OP. Just, no. Tankside is alive and strong, the Sunderer is fine.

Two 2/2 MBTs using the same level of teamwork will wreck a Battlebus.

A single 2/2 Liberator with a Dalton will wreck a Battlebus.

Tank mines will wreck a Battlebus.

Do you see what I'm driving at here?

I think Sundy should not kill MBT
First,Main role of Sundy is transports and mobile spawnroom and got some gun for defend them self not to kill MBT by any mean.
Second,3/3 on Sundy is not the point because 1 man on Sundy just a driver no capable of Shooting.So it's 2/2 Sundy VS 2/2 MBT

Three coordinated people using tools that can kill a tank shouldn't win against 2 people in a tank?

That the logic of the OP?

No no no, AP rounds already do more than enough damage. The problem is the Fury's high damage against heavy armor, nothing else. Reduce the damage to heavy armor and give it a slight buff in another area (i.e. increased ammo capacity), so that it doenst become useless.

He is saying that this:


should not win against this:


It is a game however, so fun factor comes above logic or RL.

Technically, it does function as an AMS, but only for up to twelve people.

Balance comes before fun comes before logic or RL. That returns to the initial point of the thread: is the Sunderer currently balanced around this emergent role?

I have never ever lost to a dual-Fury Sunderer in a 2/2 AP Vulcan prowler. It was dead long before there was any serious damage received. I'd say it's fine as it is.

More or less so that people don't chainpull 200 nanite pseudo tanks. The Battle bus should have a good chance of winning if the MBT is a 1/2 tank or its just a lonely Lightning.

I think battle buses could be more powerful if they weren't 200 nanites. Dynamic resource costs SOE plz.

The one bit of nerfing I would do is for the speed and performance of the Sunderer.

Or even just Sunderers that equip blockade armor. Make blockade armor give the Sunderer a -10 kph speed penalty and 20% acceleration penalty and see how that feels. The real problem, which I think the video highlights nicely, is that these Sunderers, for all their armor and firepower are waaaaaay too fast and maneuverable. They are outgunning, outrunning and outmanuevering MBTs. You shouldn't get all 3. An anti-armor MBT can beat them if the fight starts at a little bit of range but not when the Sunderer is barreling towards them at these speeds.

Well technically, the fury does deal light damage to armor. Per shot. At max rank mag size, it's got 12 rounds per mag, and 2 of those mounted on it. And they only work at close range. And you need both gunners and an intelligent driver to work together. The biggest advantage a tank has on a sundy is range. If you are letting a sundy get that close to you, you are either playing your tank way too aggressively, without enough nearby help, or got caught by surprise.

But yes, Sundys are probably a bit too cheap.

Furies are listed as an AI weapon not an AV weapon. damage type is not defined by how it is most effective against something but by how the devs intended it to be used (look at the description of the fury). the issue clearly is furies as an AI weapon are far to effective on a sunderer against their counter.

you don't see battle buses in hordes because they require 3-6 people to coordinate and work together (one battle bus + a repair dual fury sundie) that combo will easily destory tanks.

a battle sundie driver acts like a newb rushing tanks in close range the difference is the battle sundie will win because of the lack of vehicle balance. a support vehicle that spawns and transport troops should be a sheep compared to the wolf that is an MBT when the sundie is deployed.

the lack of true AV weapons(by intent and design by the devs) on the sunderer is a statement in itself that sunderers are meant to be sheep to MBTs and not wolves.

Would the perception change if SOE changed the nanite base cost?
There are some players who say that if a vehicle costs more , then it should be able to "do" more...

Example:

Flash 50
Flash with gun 100
Harasser 250
Lightning 300
MBT 400
Sunderer 500

If the Sunderer turns out to be the most powerful vehicle, should it not cost more than all others?

I see a lot of people complaining about how battle buses can farm.. BUT I have never been farmed by them

I also pretty much never see them because they require TEAMWORK which seems to be the bane of a lot of players. Sadly.

Also Jibbajabba fleshed out the rest of what I was going to say rather nicely.

I see a lot of

Tanks are supposed to be God Mode feels in this thread though.

In a truly balanced game, even the hunter can always become the hunted. Especially if the equipment that makes you into "a hunter" as some of you are referring to the MBT as, is readily available to everyone.

If you want to only have tanks fight tanks. Go play World of Tanks.

The fury hasn't been a good AI weapon in a very long time. It *used* to be decent back in the day, when splash damage was greater, but no longer.

The only tanks that die to battle buses are the ones that aren't using teamwork - ie. you get a 1/2 or 2/2 MBT running on by their lonesome, and they cry about anything that kills them.

Hornets are rather weak, but even they will take out an AV MBT out in the middle of nowhere because the MBT lacks AA support. And they'll cry about ESFs being OP.

These 'elite' tankers think they're super heroes that should be able to go around the map and hunt other vehicles with impunity. And when they get countered by anything be it Harassers, battle buses, ESFs, Libs, etc, they cry and cry for nerfs.

Yet I've seen plenty of those Vulcan Harassers that people are QQing so hard about these days just get blown up in short order, cause they rush into a bunch of enemies that all focus fire on them, and boom, dead Harasser!

Yeah I guess teamwork is very OP!

This game's "balance" is probably beyond salvation. SOE has made it so everyone can do anything they want with whatever class/vehicle they want to use, and vehicles are cheap enough that people can pull them all day long and be as careless as they'd like. So we have a big mess, where you just pick whichever vehicle or class you are in the mood to play, and roll with it. Strategy, hard-counters, and caution are things no one really needs to worry about. As long as the masses are wow'ed by the large scale battles and explosions long enough to spend some money, that is all that matters.

That said, the sooner everyone accepts that this game isn't even trying to be anything more than special effects and instant gratification, the happier they will be. Quit holding it up to a standard that they aren't even trying to achieve and you may enjoy it more. Accept the game for the shallow, dumb fun it's meant to be and go play something that is meant to be hardcore and competitive when you are in the mood for it.