The "Orion is Easymode" Thread

I'll just throw this in here:

NS-15M (KPU/SPH)
VS: 18.63 / 28.22
NC: 15.23 / 24.62
TR: 15.74 / 26.37

link:http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/

Discuss

I believe (and it is just an opinion) that there is really no good way to look at the stats of the LMG's and get a good picture of where they stand.

Because if you are comparing starter weapons, then you are comparing a CQC weapon to a All Rounder to a longer range weapons performance.

If you try to compare weapons in a similar role (Orion - CQC vs MSW-R vs Anchor) then you are looking at a 0 cert, 250 cert and 1000 certs with the latter two acting as a gating mechanism.

If you try to compare the beetlejuice to the Anchor and MSW-R then you introduce a minimum 1100 cert wall and 5800 kills spread out across 5 unique LMG's, where the others can simply be bought with zero in game progression.

The best you can hope for is that CQC weapons generally produce higher values than those geared towards mid and long range. (Because most of the fighting in planetside is pretty close). And that weapons with higher gates (certs, kills, etc) generally produce higher results because of the time (and by extension experience) it takes to get them. If you accept that premise then the numbers fall pretty well in line with where you'd expect them to. *edit to add* The last bit being extremely niche weapons (Burst variants, etc) tend to have higher values because of the portion of the player base they attract.

Nerf the VS NS-15M. It's OP. Because VS.

Funny, I was just thinking this about you.

lol!


But about the Orion - I far prefer the SVA 88 myself. Not sure why people like the Orion, really.

There is no SPH stat listed on that site. So I must ask, where did you come up with that?

Aside from that, the full chart is here. Excluded stats are VKPU and AKPU, which are not relevant to the discussion. From these stats I am coming to the inference that either:
-VS HAs are somehow better with the NS15M LMG than the other two factions
or
-VS HAs are better at using the .75 ADS of the NS15M LMG.

Since the TR seem to use the LMG the least, I have concluded that most TR HAs are going for auraxiums. NC are middle of the road, and I think that they might be using it in substitute for the lack of a easy to control 143/652 LMG. VS use it the most, and I have a feeling that it is a combination of Auraxiums (gotta get dat betelgeuse) and the ingrained experience with .75 ADS LMGs.

But of course, this is a pretty narrow window and some big assumptions. KPH isn't everything, as you might have seen in one of my previous posts in the thread.

Let there be light!
I dislike the Orion. I have Auraxiumed it, but it doesn't feel as alien as the Lasher, as controllable as the Polaris, or as accurate as the Flare. It feels like a TR weapon with a frozen fish design, with the 0.75x ADS bonus slapped on it.

Weapons currently the .75x ADS speed modifiers are not really Light Machine guns, their heavily modified assault rifles similar in design to the M27 IAR, RPK-74M, or the U-100 Mk 5 (for the Battlefield 4 players). These weapons are typically lighter then their LMG brethren because of this design choice. Example M27 IAR weighs in at 7.9 pounds unloaded(about 9 pound loaded), and the M249 weighs in at 17 pounds unloaded (22 pounds with a 200 box mag).

Now that we know that what is the "Heavy Class", its PS2 version Rexo also known as Reinforced Exosuit which is even in the Heavy Class description on the PS2 wikia. So that leaves to explain what is an Exosuit is, which is a suit designed to carry not only the weight of the suit but the weight of the equipment the soldier carries. So if the Heavy is expected to fight with heavy weapons that weight around 22+ pounds at normal speeds, but instead of taking a heavier weapon they take something lighter then their less encumbered. Thus more movement speed.

Now to use a perfect in game example of said IAR weapon type. It is called the NS-15M Series which is a Heavily Modified NS-11 series assault rifle. This weapon also has the .75 ADS modifier and has 55 round box magazine much like the Orion.

Further more likes take a look at what weapons fit into what Machine gun class/type that encompasses this games LMG class weapon.

IAR Types

NS-15M Series NS
Orion VS
Betelgeuse 54-A VS
MSW-R TR

IBR (Infantry Battle Rifle, Heavily modified Battle rifle)

GD-22S NC
LA1 Anchor

LSW Type (Light Support Weapon)

Pulsar LSW VS
SVA-88 VS
T-32 Bull TR

Light Machine Gun Type

VX29 Polaris VS
T-9 Carv TR
T-9 Carv S TR
T-16 Rhino TR
T-9A Butcher TR
EM 1 NC

Medium Machine Gun

Flare VE6 VS
Ursa VS
TMG-50 TR
EM6 NC
NC6S Gauss Saw S NC

Heavy Machine Gun Type

NC6 Gauss Saw NC
NC6A Godsaw

Two reasons. The first is that VS guns require you to aim since they have the lowest damage per magazine while at the same time having a lower than average ROF. VS guns are a bit easier to aim on average than TR/NC ones but we have to aim to be competitive. The second is that outside of the Orion and SVA-88 we don't have great LMG's to fall back on.

Personally I auraxed the following for my Betelgeuse.

• Orion: Finished this up before it went through 3 rounds of nerfs. Love it and even after the nerfs it's still an amazing gun which is why I love the Betelgeuse. The Betelgeuse is my offense LMG.
• SVA-88: Auraxed it after the 3 rounds of nerfs and I hate how inaccurate it is now. For me this was a painful gun to Aurax.
• Flare: Love this thing to death (+2200 kills) but some hate it since statistically speaking it's the worst 167/577 LMG in the game. This will always be my room hold LMG.
• NS-15: Super accurate, great at medium rage but for me falls short at close range.
• Polaris: Felt like a 100 round NS-15 accuracy wise, but trades 0.75 ADS for a bit more DPS and much larger mag. This is still my all-rounder LMG.

The Ursa and the Pulsar I've tried but they just never clicked with me although some in my outfit like the Ursa (but hate the Flare) and those that like the Pulsar don't like the Polaris (or both the Flare and Ursa), but either way most people in my outfit love the NS-15 for it's super accuracy. The 0.75 is just the icing on the cake for this gun.

Why are the VS not comparing the orion to the SAW? To me it evidence that the SAW is terrible. What it not? I saw the Emerald VS miller clash and nearly 88% of the NC used the anchor instead of this so called GODSAW.

**** it im say it. I hate the saw and I believe it UP.

Anyways continue with your pointless forumside complaints.

The SAW isn't used in the same way, it's a niche weapon. The Orion, CARV and Anchor are generalist weapons, the SAW is specced for fighting at medium range andd high-aim players. This is why it's not a good starter weapon.

fixed.

True, a lot of TR and NC can probably rely on the raw DPS and power of their weapons while the VS have to think a bit to fully use their gun (and the NS-15M does mimic the Polaris, come to think of it).

Regardless of my opinions, overall it is popular opinion that the VS LMGs could use a bit of a rethink. For better or for worse, this rethink could involve the removal of .75 ADS from all LMGs (which would hit only 3 weapons). Likely, the nerfed LMGs would have to be buffed to compensate the loss of .75 ADS. These buffs would probably come in the velocity, reload speed, accuracy, and/or ROF departments considering that the weapons sometimes suffer in those categories. Next up would be a VS AR rethink, considering those also seem to suffer a bit as well.

No, the Anchor is a generalist weapon, as is the GD-whatever. The EM6 is also a generalist.

The EM1 is a suppression weapon.

It seems we have different definitions.

To me

any lmg that 143/750 will be compared and since NC does not have this the EM1 is the runner up. I simply do not understand where you are getting at really. The orion is a generalist weapon but the SAW isn't? The orion is niche in close range and the Saw is niche in long range yet you refuse to compare the orion to the saw?

Most VS agree that the Saw should not be default NC LMG, but instead should swap with the Anchor or GD22 and become the "Free" option if you select HA for your free gun on a new character.

The SAW is an amazing weapon for which the TR and VS have nothing like it (unlike the NS11M which is a lot like the Orion) but requires an additional 320 cert investment, and is still not the best CQC nor easiest LMG to use by any margin... which makes it terrible as the default option even if it is amazing and unmatched for longer range fights.

Battlegoose has more users and a higher rating because:

1) VS gun selection is dire so it funnels people into 1-2 guns. You know how you see a lot of Battlegeese? How many of the aurax carbines do you see?
2) The GODSAW and (to a lesser extent) the Butcher are steaming piles of garbage that are downgrades to a kitted out default (Butcher) or straight up literally worse in every single way than a stock default (GODSAW). Lots of people have them unlocked. Nobody uses them.

If you want the premier MLG turbosperg LMG you want the Anchor. Statistically, it's what the best players do the best with, and they will literally tell you the exact same thing. Emerald was jumping for joy at getting NC twice in a row for this very reason.

Performance-wise, the Orion is about even with the EM6 and can't even top the GD-22S. These are both great guns mind you, and so is the Orion if it matches your playstyle, but let's not puff things up here.

Also:
80 - Orion VS54 | Q4 KPU | Daily Average: 23.11
301001 - VS NS-15M | Q4 KPU | Daily Average: 26.07

It's not even better than the NS-15M lol


edit - also the SAW freaking rules, even bone stock, and I will irl fite every last wowza here who says otherwise

Nope I hate the SAW even in medium-long range. The recoil is unpredictable and thanks to clientside/hit registry the saw is penalize more then Fast firing weapons. You need to stand still and burst to maintain accuracy and moving and shooting is terrible compared to any gun.

I like to move and shoot not stand still and pray to the heavens that an sniper won't eat me for dinner.

k

The Orion can be used at close range and medium range, even long range with burst fire. It is relatively easy to do so, and the weapon handles as you'd expect.

The SAW, conversely, has a punishing RoF and CoF bloom that make missing shots death sentences, and only good players (read; not new players) can make it work up close with headshots. The SAW is also not good when firing on the move, and is heavily reliant on good allies to screen you.

The SAW is not user friendly, the Orion is. This is what makes the Orion a generalist weapon and the SAW a specialist weapon.

Though I prefer the Orion as it works better for me, the SAW is still absurdly powerful in the right hands, like the Reaper.