So...where is the Heavy Shield delay nerf?

I actually believe the opposite. Every class should have a playstyle, but should be able to choose their specializations. Vehicles are a good example of this, nearly all of them can select AA/AI/AV specializations and still feel unique. Currently the HA (and MAX) is the only class that can make a choice like this.

I'm sure this is factual and not biased in any sense...

Also, I *WISH* this was so, VS would be very easy to stop then - no medics for revives, no LA to stop out LA's from flanking and killing them, no Engineers to let them reload, or fix those 10% MAX'es, and no Snipers in the hills or stalkers around the corners ready to ambush and kill you, none of that.

Just an army of 50 rounds LMG users who's hated ability is to trade mobility for more health.

This would never work out, but that won't stop the hyperbole from the whiny likes of you.

In other words, let's drop classes altogether and let people come up with their own specific builds?

That might work, but then we will soon see what builds are completely broken and everyone goes for that. For instance, what would you pull to stop Jet-pack armed Assault Rifle wielding Medic tool enabled dudes with conc grenades and rocket launchers? What if they are accompanied by jet-pack enabled, cloak capable sniper rifle armed dudes with revive grenades? Or perhaps jet pack enabled shotgun wielding cloakers with conc grenades?

I think the rageing and crying on these forums wold reach epic-level proportions.

Game would be dead long before that, the whiners would have killed it.

The whole issue here is nothing more than a damn L2P issue. You *DON'T* engage Heavies front-on with anything but heavies and expect an easy win. It can be done, you usually have superior weapons, but it's risky as hell - the Heavy is MADE to be superior in direct front-line combat, that's the whole deal. The number of people who can't simply realize this and start flanking, ambushing and ganking Heavies instead of rushing to face them up-close is amazing to me.

If the over-shields are a "crutch" for "bad players" then all players are 'bad', because everyone plays some infantry class that has a gimmich that aids them.

Infils can cloak, those cowards. Medics can self-heal and is effectively using every other class as a literal meat-shield, those bastards. Light assault can flank and ambush from higher out-of-reach positions with ease, those damn scrubs. Engineers hide behind MAX'es like frightened kids behind their dads, and they NEVER run out of ammo. Talk about cructh man!

And don't get me started on MAX'es. How unfair! TWO DAMN GUNS! Over twice the hit-points, resistance to small arms fire, a charge ability, what were the devs thinking!? I've no idea what flanking is man, I've no idea how to avoid them, I can't be bothered to think!

Just nerf the things, NERF ALL THE THINGS(TM), and then I can play this game without dying like the scrub I am and won't have anything to whine about anymore...

Wait yes I do. That other guy playing the same class I do managed to kill me in a direct firefight. Nevermind his CQB gun for our close-up fight vs my long-range gun, his position and aiming abilities, he's obviously cheating!

Moral of the story? There will always be something for whiners to cry about. Until the very day this game shuts down it's servers for good.

I'm so sorry to hear of your personal lack of ability to deal with this game while HA's exist in it, thanks to your lack of ability to adapt to and deal with Heavies.

So very sorry dude.

The door to leave is to your right. The whole game will not be completely overturned based on your personal opinion, in turn based on your lack of adaptability.

Elitist entitlement-issue victim spotted.

You could try to argue against the man's points, but I guess that would be asking a little to much of you.

Not surprising, you would rather the HA get's nerfed than having to think of ways to counter the HA's abilities and strength.

I would pity you, if you deserved it.

Light Assaults, Medics, Engineers and Heavy Assaults have C4 and can put it on tanks at will.

Engineers have AV turrets and AV mines and HA's have rocket launchers.

MAX suits can pick AA/AV/AI weapons as it pleases, even mix and match if they want.

All of the classes have anti infantry weapons, and the Infiltrator is specialized in being a dedicated anti-infantry class with everything from long range sniping/recon abilities to close range ambush/hacking abilities. Technically they can be anti-tank/anti-air as well if you hack the right turret at the right place and time. This is not hard as sneaking into an enemy base can be done in a variety of ways.

So in other words you have no one class with a "dedicated anti-tank" role, you don't even get a class dedicated to anti-air because both the Heavy and the MAX have to chose what loadout to use, and the Engineer have to pick the mines/turrets it want for the occasion, Medics and LA's can pick C4 if they wish, but this is a choice.

This is a good thing. It promotes variety and a range of ways to approach a host of issues and problems.

The only one specialized vehicle is Lightnings, it pick a job like AA/AV/AI and have to stick with that, it don't even get a secondary gun that can be tasked with a different thing. And even THEN, those guns can damage/injure/destroy/kill enemies outside of their specialization - AV guns can kill infantry and hit aircraft, SkyGuards *can* damage vehicles and infantry, so they are not completely helpless... not that that helps much :/

Anyhow, point being, classes and vehicles are versatile enough to leave you wish free choice. Some ofc, do some things better than others. That's why we have different classes...

This is exactly what people said when they defended the Vanguard Shield.

It's amazing.

ಠ_ಠ


You do realize the difference between reactive and proactive... right?

See, there is a disparity of choice though. The Heavy Assault and the MAX can pick AV/AI/AA just fine, without problems, but other classes just don't even have the options. C4 is well and good as a utility, but it's not exactly going to create the focus of your loadout like a MAX or Heavy can with their tools and abilities.

I totally agree with you that class diversity is a good thing though, so I think that every class should maintain it's own flavor and playstyle for it's AA/AI/AV (or weaker blend of the three) ladouts. And some might be more effective than others, sure. Just for example an Anti-Air infiltrator might only have a special beacon that magnetizes to aircraft, decreasing lock-on times for such-and-such a time period while revealing it's position. An engineer AA loadout might just be an AA turret. I think giving these choices to all classes while maintaining their playstyle would be great for the game because then, should someone want to focus a certain target type they don't feel forced into a role or class they don't enjoy.

WHOA WHOA WHOA.

A "HEAVY ASSAULT" with an ability to take around 3 extra bullets makes him have WAY TOO MUCH HEALTH. Why don't we also make infiltrators have a 10 second cooldown on their cloak because you can cloak instantaneously."OP!!!". Or have the engy tool be a 1 use item because you can repair tanks indefinitely. "OP!!!!!" Or even better, medics can only heal people while they're alive and can't rez them because everyone knows you can't just bring people back from the dead magically. "OP!!!!!" Also remove jetpacks after 1 use because their fuel somehow regenerates without resupplying, ever. Obviously SUPER OP!!!!

Stupid nerfers, man. Quit the game and stop playing, because you've ruined some of the most fun and enjoyable parts of it already.

I believe you totally forgot about the engineer. Medics are not in a bad spot either, nor are infiltrators. The only class that is really one sided is the light assault.

Yeah, Engineers have pretty good AI and AV options, but I'd like to see it rounded out with an AA turret. Infils I think could use two things to top it's options off, a (weak) anti-material rifle, and a new tool that magnetizes to Aircraft and vehicles to give it a little bit of AA/AV tool usage. But yeah, LAs could use some love... maybe a set of grenade lanchers? They are after all the mobile brothers of the Heavy Assault, so it makes sense that they should have an equivalent but weaker and shorter ranged version of the rocket launcher, with Anti-Air (dunno how that'd work) Anti-vehicle and Anti-Infantry versions just like the rocket launcher.

I did not want the Vanguard shield removed or over-nerfed, I was in favor of devs working it over to be balanced. To this day I'm assuming they did, as I still see the Vanguard shield being used on practically all Vanguards I ever fight, meaning that if SOE did anything, it was not an over-nerf, ala ZOe/Striker and so on.

Of course. But I'd much rather have everyone run around with resist shield because it can't be used in a reactive way nearly as effectively. And honestly it's not really much better than NMG in terms of ability to suck up damage, and flat out worse than adren if you manage to get a single kill with your push.

lol all the comments from desperate HA mlg users screaming no against a nerf.
HA have the best weapons and most health without the shield.
And dont come with the ******** "shock troopers" ps2 do not work that way. HA today in ps2 is just ADADADAD win 1v1. That is not the way to play for a "schock trooper"
And if HA is the first wave to enter a room you have alot of time to switch it on before.

Actually, medics have the highest dps weapons in the game and every class has the exact same health, with the exception of infiltrator, who has 100 less shield.

(I understand that dps is relative, when burst is more important in a lot of cases. LMGs however are not the "best" weapons in the game, they are merely bullet hoses)

it's pathatic that people need this thing nerfed. It does not make the HA invincible, it never was an "Iwin" shield. It's good, it's nice, it gives 700 health that starts depleting at a high rate instantly. The amount of times I killed a HA despite the shield, even when they got the alpha shot, are numerous.

The shield should give an advantage. If you cannot use the shield properly, what the hell do you got it for? You might as well remove it then.

The

Maybe. But i am so tired of vanu orion ADAD with shield.
Vanu orion is the problem

I sympathize with your sentiments. I used to be a lot worse myself and blamed the enemy weapons and not my lack of skill. Well, a combination of improving, along with some testing of the enemy's greener grass was enough to convince me that the problem was not the weapons, but me.

Orion is... meh, it looks like a problem because it adds the the amount of additional survivability that the shield gives, which is, as incognito would say, "cray cray" right now.

As for the Orion as a weapon, it's nice... so is the bull, the gd22s, the SVA, SAW, the... well TR get a short stick for LMGs, the whole faction advantage of more dakka is largely negated lol. That being said, other people seem to like the MSW, CARV, and TMG. I just stick with the bull, thing is so underrated.

Anyway, the thing is the shield. simple solution, nerf to 300 shield, buff recharge to 18 seconds maxed, and no more drain. More consistently available, and the skill gap doesn't have to be as wide to overcome it, while it still gives an advantage to the user in face to face confrontations of about 2 bullets.

When you put it that way, you can think of the infantry as being the catalyst to the load out, much how a lightning acts as a catalyst where the turrets give them roles. I mean sure every class has their load out but aside from the MAX unit every class would be categorized as 'Human' or 'Infantry' really. But I am not sure about feeling 'unique' to me the only class that seems to fit such a bill would be Infiltrator given that class is really set on killing infantry, but all the others can pretty much do the same thing what others can but with added perks course some better than others but they are just too blended that the importance of being unique just isn't there. Like in battlefield, certain classes could fight vehicles either to a greater or lesser degree but other classes has no means of fighting vehicles.

I've compiled a list of arguments (A) and counter-arguments that often get brought up in a threads like this one.

I mentioned this in the summary at the end, but let me just reiterate it: I don't ask for HA shield nerfs. It doesn't need to be nerfed, it needs to be reworked. A simple delay, unless it's a full second, wouldn't be enough anyway.

A: HA is needed as a crutch so bad players have a chance against "MLG PRO" guys.

All kinds of players this HA. Bad non-HA will have harder time against bad HA, just as "MLG" non-HA will have harder time against "MLG" HA.

Even if Heavy Assault class was only available to bad players, and only when they go against good players, so they're on level ground, how exactly is this a good mechanic? Good players work their *** off to be good, they deserve a higher score.

I'm not perfect. But I'm better than I was two years ago. I work hard on it. I sincerely strive to improve myself, every day I learn something new that makes me a better player.

A: Most people have no problem with HA shield.

Baseless statement. Are you global consciousness? Or have you done polls? Then you don't know what "most other players" are doing. What you get is a perception, a biased opinion. Without hard numbers you see what you want to see.

My statement: Heavy Assault shield is a crutch for bad players, and it is harmful for their improvement in the game.

HA shield gives an advantage. It will lift a bad player to a level of a good player, and will lift a good player above other good players.

In a competitive game a higher skill player should always win. That's what makes competitive games interesting, that's why a game like StarCraft enjoys such huge popularity.

When you encounter a higher skill player and lose, your first reaction should be to try to improve yourself, so you can go against that player and win. Raise your skill level to answer the challenge.

But why bother when you have access to a crutch? You can just equip it and win that way.

A: What if I need to use HA to get better at the game?

Improving as HA is going in a wrong direction. Instead of teaching to not to blunder in unfavorable situations it teaches to flick on the shield and kill the threat.
Instead of teaching how to shoot in the head to win 1 v 1 engagements, it teaches to flick on the shield and kill the threat.

It's a dead end. Of course, at the same time HA will learn not to blunder in unfavorable situations. He might think like "phew this time my shield saved me, but I better not let it happen next time". But I doubt this actually happens a lot. Kill is a win. Death is a loss. Losses teach much better than wins.

Korean StarCraft players - often the best in competitive starcraft scene, people go to Korea from all over the world to L2P StarCraft - have this mindset: "I'm actually grateful to people who defeat me. If I win - I've learned nothing. If I lose, it shows I still have ways to improve".

A: There is nothing wrong with shield, you're just mad because you lost to a HA!

If everyone would blame everything on himself all the time, there would be no improvement in this world. Critique is an important part of getting rid of imperfections.

When Michelangelo was asked: "How do you create these amazing sculptures?", he replied: "I simply take a marble block and remove everything that's not a perfect sculpture".

When I round the corner and come face to face with an HA and die, knowing that I would have killed him if not for the shield, I know I made a mistake. Within current game boundaries I must try my best not to let such engagements happen.

But I also know it's a bad game mechanic that shouldn't exist in a competitive game.

A: Heavy Assault is the backbone of the army, the frontline soldier, it's supposed to be strong, it's supposed to win all 1 v 1 fights!

There's no "the frontline soldier" in an FPS game. We're all frontline soldiers here, fighting and killing each other. The fact that one of the classes has easier time doing that is bad game design.

Everyone being forced to play one class, or accept the fact they will lose most of their engagements to those who do use it, is not a good game mechanic. PS2 should not be a Korean MMORPG where there are classes for PvE damage, PvP damage, crafting and supporting, and each class can do only one thing and sucks at other things.

It's a bad game design for an FPS game. In MMORPG there's lots of stuff people can do. PvE, PvP of various levels, social and economical aspects. In PS2 all we have is PvP in one form. In that setting it's bad to have classes that have clearly more power than others.

A: But other classes have Jet Pack / can heal and revive / give out infinite ammo!

I don't deny the fact that other classes have more/different utility than a heavy. The problem is that utility doesn't matter in the part of the game which is FPS: guys shooting at each other.

As long your goal is to kill other players - which is usually the main activity in FPS - you're forced to play HA or MAX, or acknowledge the fact you will lose a lot of fights regardless of your gunplay skill.

Summary (TL; DR)

HA shield ability is a crutch for bad players, helping them to win when they should not have been able to. It makes going against good players insufferable. It invalidates competitive spirit of the game, and pigeionholes everyone to playing this one class or accept the fact they will lose more often than they should. There is nothing good or healthy about the IWIN nature of this ability.

That's why it should be redesigned into something other than an IWIN button. Heavy Assault is the premiere assault class, we get it. It doesn't mean it should be able to automatically win every single 1 v 1 engagement. There's lots of ways HA's ability can be changed to make it important and useful in both assault and defense, without making it completely overpowered.

An example of not-overpowered defensive ability:
HA summons a frontal wall-like shield that covers most of the Heavy Assault's body, but leaves head, upper chest and back exposed. It completely absorbs all damage, and HA can crouch to be fully covered by it from the front. HA can move at the reduced speed, and the wall will move with him.

Guys, you do realise that classes are not supposed to be balanced between each other, only between factions, right?

In response to the original intent of this thread: hopefully never, seeing as how it would miss the entire point of the class and ultimately cripple a large, balanced hunk of the game. I'm in favor of nerfing Lmg accuracy to encourage more stationary HAs and eliminate some of the overarching capability at all ranges and all situations the class has access to. The shield is fine as it serves in mainly initial encounters rather than extended encounters.