PPA would have to be nerfed inorder to balance it.

Again, see nothing out of place. Still missing how many of those were on 2/2 tanks or just a 1/2 vs a 2/2 or 1/2.
The MBT secondary sheet is quite old as well, and still don't see anything out of place. Amount of PPA being used over the amount of canister and marauder being used is a large margin, so obviously as an AI weapon it is going to have a multiplicative increase in KPU (due to a weapon specific against a target rich environment). However as it has already been covered in this thread, no matter how much you want to try and use those incomplete metrics in an argument (and as a result create a fallacy), it still doesn't mean its for sure overpowered. Try and keep up please. Also to further show how skewed and incomplete those sheets are for balancing purposes, look at the headshots on the PPA vs the other 2. Also look at the metrics for the NS secondaries.... lol .... almost makes it look falsified.... ( look at basilisk and kobalt users+kills+KPU+Headshots)... average accuracy of the users of the secondaries would be a nice thing to include as well

So the PPA has 80,000 kills while the other 2 faction specific guns are 3000 and 6000 LOL

Not only that but the KPU is over 3 times more then TR and NC equivalents LOL

Not Over powered? really? The stats say otherwise

Such a precise time frame.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...emJRbkVPTFN0Wm5Rang4SmNuX1E&usp=sharing#gid=0
Is from last august. This spreadsheet actually show that while vanguard use alot less ES secondary, they used more NS secondary than VS. The prowler is the MBT with the least secondary user.

In the end, it is a myth because people never actually came up with proofs that a "massive" lack of secondary gunners on the Vanguards was the very reason of its lacking stats performance. You can't really come up with something random without anything to support it than ask people to prove you wrong.

It's maybe because I do know and you sadly don't.

I know but if you are farming long range. The prowler main gun does most of the killing and the secondary is weak and it's the opposite with the magrider The main gun is weaker and the secondary does most of the farming.

That's true for any range with both tanks...

Prowler the driver gets most the kills, Maggie the gunner does.

Vanguard we're pretty even split. (Almost pure AV Enforcer here)

So far the argument is as follows.

Stats show PPA vastly outperforms all other anti-infantry secondarys in the game. Not just by twice as much but over 3 times as much.

Vanu responce = BUFF EVERYTHING! All other Anti-Infantry weapons are under performing!

Everyone else = Nerf the PPA down to the level of everything else.

Which do you think the devs will do? Buff everything causing a knock on effect of having to rebalance MBT's and infantry across the board and as a result give the devs more work?

or

Rebalance the PPA so it's not outperforming all other anti infantry weapons 3 fold?

Whether it's 100 people using item A and and 20 using item B, the average is the average between them users using that given item.

Given the option do you really think if more players equiped the Marauder and Canister, that the KPU would go up? One could argue it could infact go down.
You're more likely to see people who equip these weapons to go out and "Troll" others with it, which are more likely to be perceived as higher than above average skilled players, and not your usual run of the mill grunt.

Uhm, only the Infantryside players.

TANKERS want a real AI option.

Of course, the way SOE has been going with nerfing everything on a vehicle's AI capacity, it will most likely result in nerfing the PPA down to 10 rounds making it utterly pointless and useless just like the other 2, instead of making them actually desireable.


Tell me... how is making everything worthless better for this game?

I'm actually playing more NC and TR lately, and barely touching my VS since Emerald. I want good AI options for my tanks.

Have to agree with you. Most people with an ounce of common sense would know this.

The PPA is as strong as main MBT weapon according to it's stats and KPU. That's exactly what I was saying through out this thread. The Vanu's main Anti-infantry MBT cannon is also still the biggest infantry killer in comparison to TR/NC.

So if you want to farm Infantry the Magrider is king even without a PPA as their main guns kill more infantry. Nerfing the PPA down to the level of a secondary won't change that.

EDIT

To be fair to the Vanu the Halberd out performs both TR/NC Anti-infantry secondary weapons 2 fold with a KPU of 4 or even 5 if your Vanu.. That either means the Halberd needs to be nerfed too since it's a ant-tank weapon or both the TR/NC anti-infantry secondary's need a slight buff while the PPA needs a slight nerf so they all get around 6 KPU.

Either way it will be a lot of work for the devs to get the balance perfect. For the time being the PPA needs to be brought in line BUT the devs need to revisit all MBT's secondary s at some point.

Looks like someone has been doing his homework.

I'm still far more concerned with the giant sucking sound I hear every time I fire the C85.

The C85 really isn't the standard we should be holding AI secondaries to.

I love how nerf threads devolve into spreadsheet warrior stat matches

"but this wep has 3.45 damage!"
"So what that other wep has 3.2167 SPM on a daily average!!!"

People just can't deal with anyone having a slight advantage in any form nowadays.

PPA could use the minorest of nerfs to mag capacity... down to 30 base at the absolute worst.

C85 and Marauder need to be buffed. That's the plain and simple of it.

The fact that the Halberd, an AV weapon, outperforms the AI dedicated ES secondaries of the other 2 factions is pure absurdity.

The PPA doesn't even perform that much better than the Halberd as it is! (8KPU compared to 5KPU on Magrider) which is a reasonable improvement in AI capacity considering your gimping your tanks AV capability by taking it.

So it seems to me, that as an AI dedicated weapon, the PPA is actually balanced with the Halberd, while the Marauder and Canister are absolute jokes with half the KPU of the Halberd AND no AV damage.

Yep.

First they came for the lolpodders and I said nothing because I was not a lolpodder.

Then they came for the Prowler HEAT spammers, and I said nothing because I was not a HEAT spammer.

Then they came for the biolab ScatMAXes and I said nothing because I was not a biolab ScatMAX.

Then they came for the Harasser farmers and I said nothing because I was not a Harasser farmer.

Then they came for me. And there was no one left to say anything because Battlefield 5 came out.

The average KPU against vehicles of the Halberd is 2.05 against the PPA's 0.15 (how?!), are we really talking about comparable things here? (Is the stat reported as KPU infantry only or all unit kills?)

0.15 = harasser kills

That means the Halberds infantry KPU is 2 and 3 just like the the other anti-infantry secondary's.

So the Ideal changes would be to buff the NC/TR anti-infantty weapons so they are twice as effective while nerfing the PPA so it's half as effective. That would make them all better then a Halberd but not by a ridicules amount.

All depends how effective the devs want Anti-Indantry secondarys. Do they want them at 2 KPU as they are now? Or just above the Halberd with 5 or 6 KPU or all at the same level as the PPA with 8KPU. (as good as the default main cannons)

PPA used to have vehicle damage. This was nerfed alongside Marauder and Canister AV damage removal.

Also maybe Flashes? They might still take damage if you manage to hit one? Harasser is possible too since it takes damage from infantry weapons too.

6-8 KPU for AI secondaries IMO.

Maruader should be the worst since it's on the tank with the best primary for AI work.

Canister should be the best at direct damage. Highest velocity, tight pellet spread, lots of ammo. This thing could be really really nasty if done right.

PPA is pretty well where it's at. I'd maybe reduce it's mag pool a little bit, but not a lot.

Bear in mind, only reason you're even seeing PPA now is because every other tank gun has been nerfed against infantry. It wasn't even that amazing in the first place, what with Saron and Halberd. But Halberd splash has been nerfed and a Flak 4 or 5 can survive even a direct hit, and Saron is an utter joke at AI now. (It is an AV weapon of course) so this is really the first time it's been worth taking the AI weapons...

It's just unfortunate TR and NC don't have good options.


Of course, all the infantry players are just crying to have PPA nerfed... just like the Mortar which also wasn't all that great and has only seen more use since the Libs other weapons have been so heavily nerfed that Bulldog gal is actually a valid contender now.

Won't be long until the only way to counter infantry is with more infantry.

then forumside will get each class nerfed, and then no one will play .