ESFs are not direct counters to liberators. So what is?

Yes. I've landed on roads and exploded from tank mines. I also died from tank mines when I landed on top of a cliff once. Probably somebody with an AV turret shooting down...

You forgot about ESFs with a bunch of C4 strapped to the nose w/ optional Coyotes for maximum hate tells

First minute of this youtube is hilarious, but the point stands.

The harasser. I don't seem to recall them giving anyone much grief post nerf...

I'll try but man it's an uphill battle just to get the will to hop into the reaver again. Get demolished by br100's in a pack or MLG PRO lib crews every time it seems -_-

I just played the game again for the first time in 2 weeks today, grabbed a Reaver (M20 +fuel, hov, FS, NAR) and went through 8 mosquito's including a rank 100, 3 libs, 2 harassers and a smattering of infantry with my first life (actually I got teamkilled 3 times in warpgate first -what the hell btw :/ ).

Has anyone heard of me and my amazing ESF skills?, no. My point being you don't need to be as good as people think to dominate in ESF combat, I would say I am about 40% as good as the best pilot on my server but that still makes me about 4 times as good as the average pilot.

A liberator cannot beat me, seriously. I have been assassinated twice by the tankbuster and hit once ever with the dalton, that's it - EVER, all other deaths have been like 5% health affairs and what not. I have had to let a few get away if I am screwing up the fight but that's fine I can get away if I need to and try gain later.

I probably fly TOO safe tbh but I really don't see what a lib is supposed to do when I am sat in hover mode 2-300 metres away grinding him down (his ESF buddies could chase me off - working as intended)? Not to mention that over half the lib teams I shoot down are incapable of pulling any thing even closely resembling what I would describe as "fighting back" and just die in short order (like sub 20 seconds).

As a final point - a pair of ESF's will butcher a lib in no time.

I like the relationship, although I wouldn't be upset if the belly gun had to face down to fire to reinforce the counter system but I don't think it is a necessary change for the sake of balance.

Pro tips- don't fly close ever, don't fly slow if a gun can see you, take your time - he can't escape you, hover flight is NOT hard to learn, don't use coyotes/rockets against libs - the nose guns are fine.

Noob Tip - Use A2AM and auto win in 3 seconds or so. Seriously Approach him and unload a nosegun volley with him not looking then immediately fly away from him to 300-400 metres and just start spamming lock on's. I usually run M20 fuel for A2A, but I often run airhammer+tomcats for hybrid and there is NOTHING a lib can do to a close range suprise airhammer volley (30-40% of his life in 2 seconds) followed by 400 metre lock on harass. So if you don't care about skill/class/improving then you can always use A2AM instead.

Sorry, but all I see in that vid is someone that has no idea what they are doing.

That is strictly TTK. Not even the at longer distances or the change of miss.

Your methods of flying were bad, and your loadout for fighting a liberator was bad. You charged head on at the belly of a lib and expected to win. Once you were very low on health, you retreated good, but then you turned around for no reason and expected to live. The liberator is slower than an ESF and you could've lived if you ran away and didn't turn around.

Stay and shoot at long ranges with the mustang. Your shots have low drop, fast velocity, and high accuracy. Your opponent in the liberator has close range beasts but lacks greatly at longer ranges. Play to your advantages. The liberator excels at close ranges more than an air hammer ever will. Close range is were the liberator does the best. Don't play to it's advantages.

This method, if done right, can be quite boring, if you want to put in time into your ESF and learn how to fly it, there are more fun methods to dealing with a liberator. Wycliffslim, a "master of the liberator" put up video saying how to kill it. It isn't BS because practically all the good ESF pilots use this methods of dealing with deadly liberators. I know from experience on both sides.

Here's the Video:

This is the most sensible explanation of the problem I have ever heard in these generally bi-weekly "nerf the Lib" threads..

All that to just so you are not instantly killed by a vehicle your fighter is suppose to be strong against.



If only Libs took that much effort to counter a tank or infantry, then it might be balanced.

You know what would balance out the liberator? Removing the vanguard cannon from its belly and give it dumb-fire bombs.

What point? That an idiot can float in the same place long enough to get hit by 3 A2A reloads?

Good lib pilots will fly nape of the earth or retreat as soon as they get a lockon. Great lib pilots will simutaniously retreat while covering with their belly gun, forcing ESF's to keep dodging or get instagibbed, which obviously makes it more difficult to hit them. Organized great lib pilots will also have a couple of ESF's backing them up, so good luck chasing him down and dodging his 0k0 shots while his buddies chew you to pieces.

Lets say its a lib and 2 ESF vs 3 ESF. Equal skill and loadout, the lib team will win. If any of the ESF team lose track of him for a moment he can put himself into a firing position if he's using dalton, or just tear them apart using shredder. If anyone goes after the lib, they get shot down by the escorts, so it quickly becomes 2v3. And so forth.

As the other fellah said

New and good pilots are a rarity, every fight you go into is an uphill battle. Everyone is better equipped with fire suppression to get 25% of their HP back on command, so even if you were somehow equally skilled, you will still lose. But you wont be, because these people have months of experience flying and fighting, and on top of that they often fly in packs. They will have fully kitted rotaries or lockons and you will have...what?

A nose gun and a constant battle to prevent yourself from crashing into the ground. Good luck!

is this thread just complaining that you aren't good enough to collect your easy liberator kills, or what?

all their dangerous stuff is dumbfired with low projectile velocity, so esf > lib forever

if i had a 59% win rate vs the scariest liberators i would consider that a pretty hard counter, but i have probably over 90%, if anything the liberator is too weak vs esf

Lib wh*res constantly pull the 2/3ppl in one vehicle argument. Well lets introduce a new armored ground AA platform that is a SAM launcher with 3 seats that can be decently operated with 1 person hotseating and outright ***** on everything in air when its crewed with 2 people and make it have lib resource cost and a bunch of expensive certifications. Hurr this is a team effort of three people in a vehicle that costs resources and we had to put a lot of certs in it, deal with it.

duuude why do you
-use an air hammer
-CHARGE INTO THE LIB
-Starting a QQ nerf nao thread

get a2am,mustang and force the lib to FIGHT AT RANGE.

It's a bit strange that you expect to counter a vehicle manned by three with a single ESF. Unless you're really good, that isn't going to happen. Instead, you have to bring friends.

The problem with AA ESF is that their AA is only really usable vs other ESF.

You hit the nail on the head, allthough not in the way you think. We need more such "objects".

Wait, you fly directly towards the lib, try and huge it and dont expect to die?

Do this:
a) go to a flight terminal
b) select ESF with stock nosegun
c) equip it with hover frame 3
d) use afterburners.

Now you can MLG-pro solo any lib just:
a) stay at +400 meters and use that hilarious OP nearly zero bullet drop highly accurate nosegun.
b) be sure to use your AB to make a wide arch around the lib.

And no, its not difficult there are a lot of videos about solo'ing libs, inc videos in this thread. But you do need patience and you do need to run with the stock nosegun.

Not even close, at equal skill the 2 ESF will murder a single lib outside the libs effective range

Remember Pre-Nerf Harassers? There were no counters to it and they rampaged and $hit over everyboys fun for 6 months. That's what the Liberators are atm. The OP Farming Vehicle of the Month. At least until the Valkyrie gets released. By that time the Libs will get nerfed and the Valkyrie will take over the "OP Farming Vehicle of the Month" title. Probably...

Skyguards do not kill. Skyguards repel and create no fly zone.
When ESF or Lib gets in fire of 2-3 Skyguards he just thinks "oh sh*t" and afterburns away. ESF may not be so lucky but Lib usually has enough health to get away easily and just find another place to farm.

Yea...Skyguards got their job done. No one enters the air above them, but it's not really a direct counter.

Hahahahahha, that clip in the OP is hilarious.

Why the hell are you going at a lib point blank range with a freaking anti-infantry weapon. That is even not mentioning that this so-called anti-infantry weapon is more powerful than any other weapon barring anti-tank weapons against Liberators (seriously not even 2.5 clips will kill a Liberator, wtf). Thanks for the laugh.

Actually, watching this video again, it looks like you purposefully set it up for this thread. I mean, after the Air Hammer volley at 1:05 you turn left away, but immediately turn right back to the belly of the lib. Then after turning right you again turn a bit left (1:10) to really hug that Shredder up close. Then, after being set on fire and fire suppressing, you run away about 200m not even out of render distance and hover, waiting for the lib to come in (minimap) and finish you off. I mean, you pretty much took an effort to get killed in this video, didn't you? It really looks like you purposefully hugged that Shredder as close as you could and let it finish you off. All it would have taken not to get killed or even slightly damaged would have been to just turn left after the Air Hammer volley and go south a little before circling around.

Also, from the video description: "a handful of infantry many of which I assume probably had G2A launchers." I have learned long ago never to trust allied ground forces. You can dogfight 100 meters over a 48+ allied territory and not get any assistance from the infantry.