This is Nonsense

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ash87, Mar 27, 2014.

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  1. bPostal

    Go ahead and try pulling a flash. You'll be walking within 20m as a pile of smoldering rubble that used to be 100 mechanical resources burns behind you. If I need to get from point A to point B, and need something kinda cheap I'll pull a harasser or an Mossie. The flash just sucks too much **** for it to be useful.

    And Ash, don't you be knocking mah Companies! If there's 96 people zerging, then they're gonna zerg. Just because now they can all see each other doesn't mean squat. There is NO leadership in a zerg, that's one of the major reasons it's a zerg. It's headless, mindless and exists only to roll (slowly) from link to link.
    What will companies enable? It will allow for ease of multi-outfit operations (and those few outfits left that can field multiple platoons at a time). Cross continent, spread out amongst multiple lanes...It's more difficult to spread everyone out. If you make it easier to manage a geographically diverse company then it only makes sense that more people will do so. Used properly it will lead to less zerging.
    • Up x 3
  2. Modern Ancestor

    Agree could also make the tank mines at least partially worth the certs they cost.:eek:
  3. Ash87

    Because it undermines the point of this being an open world game.

    If we are just supposed to warp around the map, base to base and not have to worry about spawn locations, what is the point of having anything but 2 fixed spawn points, 1 for attackers, and 1 for defenders. All the empty space between the base is worthless at that point. This should not be the focus of the game, there should be a chance to Intercept and stop attacks if you have a ground forces before they reach a base.

    As is, the mechanics are being designed to actively punish people who try to block people from moving over the field (All you need is 1 squad leader to get past the "Line" and you are at the base).
    • Up x 1
  4. Ash87

    I'm going to knock companies, because while it is a good idea, it's going to have a flawed execution for obvious reasons that you mention up above: There is no leadership in a zerg. The only constant in zergs is numbers. You have 1 voice telling those numbers where to go. If 48 people are being told by 1 voice to move up line, they do so and it's a pain to deal with. 96 people absentmindedly wandering up line is straight silly. For the 1 outfit or outfit collaboration in a 100 that would use this well, there are a ton that will just use it to funnel MORE pubbies down lane, thereby undermining the efforts of the... Maybe 1 group per server that could efficiently use that kind of greater organization.

    I'm going to be brutally honest here, these kinds of things need to be locked behind some kind of wall of unlocks that is unforgiving and that does not give this to people who would use it to just simply throw hordes of uninformed zerg followers down lane. Thing is, I don't see SOE having the stones to actually limit that from anyone, because everyone needs a consolation prize and I am seriously getting tired of that.
    • Up x 1
  5. BillBoBaggins

    Zergs are fine when met with other zergs.This is Planetside 2 home of massive online battles.
    • Up x 3
  6. Cirevam

    Well, there's no point in pulling vehicles if there are no vehicles to kill. Infantry don't have to worry about tanks in some bases that are designed to prevent ground vehicles from interfering, like all of Wallamir. Infantry can handle the stray Lightning or whatever might show up, but the point is this: no one pulls Sunderers because everyone can teleport all over the map like a darn magical pixie, so no one pulls tanks to kill Sunderers, which means no one pulls other tanks to kill those tanks. Yay?

    Air is a little different since most bases are open to the sky. The only way we'll remove it completely is by turning every base into Subterranean Nanite Analysis.

    Agreed. I used /suicide when I needed to respawn quickly and I used redeploy when the area was safe and I had time. This change affects nothing, and now we have a reason to remove the /suicide command since it has no advantage anymore.

    Do you want to figure out how we can limit these unlocks in the long run? Everyone has infinite cert potential, so everyone will eventually be able to unlock squad/platoon/command certs. Things would be different if we had PS1's cert system...
  7. JonboyX

    I genuinely do not know where these ideas come from.

    Who has posted to say that getting from A-B was too difficult? Who supported it? Where is this demand for Noddy logistics?

    I understand that not everyone wants to join an outfit. I understand that some players may just want to dip in and out for half an hour. I understand that these people just want a quick instant action option. That is fine. IA = random fight.

    But are these people significant in number, compared to those who do join outfits, do play in squads, and do have weeks/months of play time racked up on their accounts? Does anyone who plays in an outfit really like the instant 2000km spawn-on-the-opposite side of the world option and crush any attack that has been organised enough to arrange transportation to said base?

    You can't have a war without the limitations of logistics. Otherwise; just make three bases in a triangle and call it a "clash lane".
    • Up x 1
  8. bPostal

    I agree that we could use more leadership in the 'leadership cert tree' but as you've pointed out it's unlikely to happen. A split between BEP and CEP would be a good starting point in ensuring that anyone who wants to lead has to actually, y'know, do it.

    Just because Companies may not be the most perfect thing to be placed into the game is no reason to not go forward with the idea. Like I said earlier, make it easier to control forces while they're geographically split and you'll see more of it. The company system isn't going to change anything. Just because the hex population counter stops at 48+ doesn't mean there isn't already much, much more than one platoon in a given area.
    You also need to take into account that 96 people can potentially represent a good chunk of a faction's manpower on a continent (or even the server, depending on the server and time). If those 96 are not split up in an efficient manner then you're free to run circles around them. Sure, you don't want to be directly in their path but that's true of the large, leaderless clumps of people we have now.

    Maybe One outfit per server could fully man a Company, mine used to be able to back at launch but no longer, but it's not just about any one outfit. What you enable with larger organizational units is the strategic play, particularly at the continental level, that you could previously really only get from the intercontinental lattice. That is to say, the additional oversight allows for much more coordination.

    For an example: With three companies per server, one per faction, during a Server Circle Jerk (faction alliances get together and beat the ever loving s*** out of one another) the Company leaders would be able to cobble together a cohesive fighting force and more effectively allow inter-outfit cooperation. With everyone as part of the same organizational unit, everyone is allowed a sense of what's going on and the overall picture as a whole. Yes, you can organize events and assure cooperation and cohesion between outfits already, but I don't see why allowing us as players greater ability and control over our playing environment is a bad thing (in this case, the interplay of server population against one another on a continental scale in order to ensure that the most efficient and effective utilization of forces allows for territory control).
  9. Tuco

    Forcing infantry to huff it, or grab a ride, does not create outside battles; it just makes them victims to liberators if you're a vehicle, or tanks if you're infantry.

    It's the PS1 AMS, PS1 mines, PS1 spitfires, and PS1 motion detectors create the out of base battles.
    • Up x 2
  10. Tuco

    Every time you magically spawn, you break logistics. Making you huff it from a longer distance doesn't make it logistics either.
  11. Tuco

    ...best simulated by getting rid of squad/galaxy/sunderer spawning, and bringing back the PS1 cloaking AMS. Not forcing players to manually huff it over longer distance.

    Reminds me of WWIIONLINE and manual oversupplying tanks from one base to another (attrition). Players thought that spending 10 minutes to manually drive one tank to another base to oversupply that tank was logistics. It wasn't.

    Real simulated logistics would be large numbers of AI controlled entities, that are easily visible, and highly interdictable, therefore need active protection against infiltration. Anything else is grinding-2-win
  12. Goretzu

    A lot of people hated the orginal BFRs in PS1, but it was one of the few times in PS1 (or PS2 - and it was much more common in PS1) where I genuinely felt like there was a "front line", yes it was totally dependent on where the BFRs were (and disapeared as soon as you breached a base), but still it was a refreshing gameplay change to me at that time.
    • Up x 1
  13. Ronin Oni

    It's just a big button on the menu screens... it's not that bad. I've definitely seen worse.

    On topic: You could always just RL your feet for the same speed redeploy as what redeploy now does. You're just no longer penalized for saving your death stat to save 10 seconds off the redeploy penalty.

    Gal dropping is always effective. We still do it a lot. Why? It's 12 guys dropping right on the point we want to assault. 12 guys dropping in bypassing all the spawn blockades the enemy tries to set up. Allows you to secure towers and tech/amp plant top down.

    We still gotta drive our sundies from the base we just took to the next one because we need the AMS's at the next base before we can spawn there, and everyone rides along. I mean, why not? You won't get there any faster staring at the spawn screen until they get there and deploy.

    Uhm, this does not affect normal respawns at all. It takes 10 seconds off the deploy timer when you redeploy because redeploying already made you wait 10 seconds.

    If you're killed, the respawn time is same as always.
  14. Posse

    The only thing this change does is make redeploy as effective as /suicide, dying will still give you a 15 second timer (I assume), I don't see the problem with that, if anything, it will make boring downtimes looking for a good fight more bearable, so it's a good change.
  15. DarkNeuron

    Lets face it. If you been paying attention for a while, it is clear which direction this game is headed. The signs are getting more and more numerous.
    So before the players leave in droves, SoE obviously wants to make as much money on it as possible.

    Metagame still isnt very good. But I'm still entertained enough to keep logging in, for now.
  16. Kunavi

    I wouldn't mind this change if a reason to have field fights came soon enough. For now, the immediate effect which concerns me is the lessened value of playing Troop Transport.
  17. Ash87

    No it wouldn't because they would monetize cert resets, and it would be as easy as it was in PS1, as hopping over, resetting all your crap and recerting to fill the X role you wanted to fill. To limit this one, make it so that you get points for use of squad beacons that are used, for use of AMS/Squad Deployed vehicles that are used by your people, factor in people being close to objectives and following markers you place, or if you want to get Really advanced you can add in something where people can throw you support on Command Chat for using it properly to help with a modifier that way you subtley ostracize the malcontents from Command chat as well.

    Also, Remember everyone: Carthage must be destroyed

    It's a giant bloody blinking F-ing Light. We get it, they want us to subscribe, that is just annoying though.

    On topic: I'm sorry but I really and truly think you should be penalized for warping around the map, and if it were, 5 seconds, then you can respawn in a vehicle... I'd be Okay with that, but it's not that way. You can respawn at a beacon, which can be placed Anywhere and drop you right on the point with little to no warning. There is no deploy time for a beacon, it is f-ing tiny, people can drop on it instantly, minimal risk... this is just another step in the marginalization of transport vehicles.

    (Speaking specifically to Posse) I understand the rapid redeployment argument against it, I just really think that if you had more of a need for transports, if by default typing /suicide or hitting redeploy wasn't a more efficient means of moving around, that you could get more fights between bases. It has been my observation that the best fights I have had in PS2, are not over points, but are over meaningless pieces of land. Hills or cliffs, or plateaus that don't hold any significance other than you have X number of people up there. I recall once one time there were You (This was back when you were with XOO, Uhm... 4 months back maybe, maybe longer) and a number of other VS outfits had the TR warpgate camped hard. The TR had to push a large group of tanks around to the north of the warpgate and push Down around the VS because it was suicidal to attack them from the front. I recall That 100 times more fondly than I do the umpteen million base caps I've had you kill me at.

    That is the reason for my objection, I think that expanding Open Field Battles would benefit the game more, than having convenient and instant redeploy actions to any and every fight happening over the map. If this were reworked so you could redeploy only to Vehicles, or something like that... I'd be more accepting, but the fact of the matter is that if the options for getting around are too numerous, anything happening between bases is meaningless.
  18. K2k4

    I feel people are reading too much into these things. They lowered the respawn timer to 5 seconds because they didn't think 15 seconds made all too much of a difference in the grand scheme of the battle. They increased the presence of the 'upgrade now' icon to try to get more people to subscribe. TBH it's basically a free marketing upgrade since they already own the game, the programmer, and the code, and because they obviously aren't paying too much in marketing to get new players to join (advertisements outside of the game) they need to make revenue for the game somewhere (people already playing the game). It's not pretty, but hey it just may increase their profit by a few bucks, and it didn't cost them anything they weren't already paying for.
    • Up x 1
  19. Divector

    Becouse you need a spawn point, and sunderer is almost a tank anyways. In this game, vehicles are used to fight instead transport.
  20. Ronin Oni

    You still need to push past the open terrain to get a spawn point at the next base.

    The best way to defend a base is to not let them get set up on your perimeter with spawn options, and if they do, then to remove them.Gal dropping with a beacon and an infil to hack out the vehicle term is still one of the best opening assault moves.

    It only affects the reinforcements to a fight. If they have AMS already set up then you won't be in a position as a defender to stop reinforcements traveling from the prior base to the current one anyways. If you could, you'd be removing their AMS, which would force them to retravel that distance.

    I still see large foot and armor zerg pushes from 1 base to the next after a cap. Mid base fights can still happen, and have only ever happened inbetween the taking of 1 base an establishing a foothold at the next.
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