So.... the Orion.

T16 Rhino is a popular gun for TR.

What NC weapons have the .75x speed multiplier?

It is also extremely good when breeching buidings, doing pushes, and defending. Being able to keep on firing is not a trivial advantage which, if you try NC/VS, would appreciate if you weren't already used to 40rounds in your carbines/ARs. It doesn't matter how skilled you are when you are forced to reload.

So ultimately it is all about not recognising the benefits you get with various weapons(ie, elevating the importance of one stat over another for whatever reason). For instance people assume lower RPM from the same damage tiers = less DPS. I guess this is true if you do not bother to aim. This is the reason the first LMG I got auraxium on was the VX29 Polaris. 100 bullets with 652RPM, and 143 damage tier. The RPM + recoil = equals more shots landing where I aim, and I usually land a few headshots which means I do 2 shots for every 1 shot. I know I am not alone in this as the T16 Rhino, which very similiar to the Polaris, is a popular LMG among the TR. When you reach a certain point in the "skill ceiling" you start thinking about kills per magazine, because you're no longer relying on the crutch of high ROF and spraying. You start thinking in terms of effective DPS rather than raw stats.

So yeah, the low magazine count is exactly the reason I haven't bothered with the Orion. It is the reason it is the LMG I have the least kills with.

So in a 1v1 between a very skilled Orion user and a very skilled CARV user, who would win?

I know Planetside 2 isn't about 1v1s, at least not most of the time. But essentially, the advantages that you speak of only apply when you are a skilled player facing far worse ones. Of course you can get as many kills as your magazine would allow if the enemies can't touch you due to superior skill. Using a Lasher with Ext. Mag. in a farming situation is going to give you a ton of kills. But it only helps you if your opponents are bad. When you guys face off against INI, does the damage per magazine really matter? I'd wager that you'd rather be able to kill Pella than theoretically have enough ammo for the next guy.

I play all three factions and HA in particular. I'm not used to any specific faction, but I will say that I perform way better as a VS HA - maybe the weapons lend themselves to my playstyle, maybe they're just good.

I'd say you can get less problems with reloading the more skilled you are. Reloading immediately after a kill in a situation where you know that it wont penalize you due to situational awareness is a skill you can have. You will be able to top of your magazine more often the lower your reload time, as well.

I agree that more ammunition in a magazine can be useful sometimes, I usually pull out the SVA-88 in situations where 25 more rounds is more important than a bit lower TTK. But I hardly, if ever, do I feel that I could have used 25 bullets above that.

The NS weapons, and these weapons:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...75x&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

The NC have the God SAW. Learn how to use your weapons, that thing is brutal.

INI are good but they're not this mythical outfit of immortals, however, they surely have my respect, and they are a lot of fun to play against. DWG, the outfit I am in, have beaten them and they've beaten us. In orgainised play, as a HA, you are supposed to be able to keep on the pressure. I trust my squadmates to have my back, and having both low ammo and mag makes me a liability. For this reason I prefer the SVA over the Orion, and the Polaris over the SVA. When I get auraxium the SVA and Flare I'm going straight back to the Polaris, leaving both the Orion/LSW at around 300 kills. High ammo count also synergize really well with adrenaline shield which despite how popular resist shield has become still is my favourite of the HS overshields. You don't want to give up any momentum you get, which low mag/high RPM does to you.

I think you are right when you say it comes down to personal playstyle. Strangely enough I prefer the GD-22S on my NC character but I think that's because the recoil pattern is so similiar to the Polaris, and how 167dmg tear headshots is more of a force multiplier than on 143dmg tier weapons. I am also sure the 1.5x first shot multi helps here too, very accurate bursts. Same goes for TR with the TRV and T5 AMC, although the TRV isn't exactly easy to controll it still feels very close to how VS weapon behaves.

As for the 1v1 of an Orion user and CARV user. Both have the same theoretical DPS, and what it will come down to is how well they're able to capitalize on their strengths. It be a close call either way.

Thanks! Sadly, no LMGs or Carbines there.

Just want to chime in with my thoughts on that, what is the point of killing someone if the 2nd or 3rd guy that comes around the corner can kill you because you either have too few shots left or are in the middle of reloading?

You just killed Pella but now his 2 HA friends came out and knifed you to death while his medic revived him. If it was a 1v1 the Orion might be the better choice but its kinda rare that you are in a 1v1 situation for very long.

I'd say that you could definitely kill 2 HA players with their overshields on using the Orion. I'd also say that you wouldn't be killing three good players in a fight like that using the Polaris anyway.

I have auraxium with both weapons, the msw-r has a lot more horizontal jitter then the carv making it much more difficult to utilize the slightly better cof.

I've also never been able to clear a room with the msw-r if I'm being really efficient with my bullets I can take out about 4 people before needing to pull off and reload. Compared to my carv where I have dropped ontop of heavily defended points, and killed everyone, in one magazine.

Again not saying the MSW-R is bad, its my second favorite TR lmg, right behind the carv.

The Orion is indeed the best short-mid range LMG, it's like an SMG fused with a AR. As NC I can only dream of having such easymode CQC weapons on my HA.

The "God SAW" has been nerfed several updates ago and its TTK is hit so hard by Nanoweave armor that it's not even funny...

Yeah, The gun is good, but that clip size really really holds it back.

Plenty of reasons to use other faction's starting guns as well. I Auraxiumed the T9 Carv today (as well as getting BR64) and are moving on to other classes like Medic and Engineer using starter guns like T1 Cycler and TRAC-5, for the sake of variety. I own the TAR, Jaguar etc. and just felt like giving the starter guns a fair go before I moved on. The God Saw has hard to handle recoil as well, but once you learn how the gun handles you can control it, and make a godly weapon out of it. It does take getting used to, but that is true for all weapons in this game.

I have resist shield 5, NW5, and up until recently carries the Carv as my almost exclusive weapon, after Aura'ing the MCG. NC heavies with GS is still one of the nastiest things I face, surviving those are almost always a 50/50 affair unless I get the drop on them, even in CQB. I was not aware of any nerfs, but now I just try to imagine it when it was even more powerful

Pretty much every VS player I know who plays Heavy uses the SVA-88.

Virtually no-one I know uses the Orion. It's great at CQC, but the SVA beats it in all other situations, and it's only just behind the Orion in CQC.

GR-22 / Gauss Rifle Burst / Sweeper / Jackhammer / Piston / GD-66 Claw / LA39 Bruiser/ Carnage BR / Blitz GD-10 / AF-4 Cyclone /

The only 2 things that really set the Orion apart from other 50 round CQC oriented LMG's is its 0.75x ADS movement multiplier and the fact that its a starter weapon.

Claims that it outperforms the MSW-R or the T9 Carv in any other regard are just stupid.

I like SVA88 even more which is basically an Orion with more bullets and a slightly slower ROF. I agree Orion is pretty amazing though, especially considering it's a default weapon that costs nothing to unlock. If I could unlock it on my NC character I would.

Indeed, the Orion is the prefered weapon of many experienced Vanu players.

And as we all know, Vanu won't use anything unless it's OP.