It's idiotic to be having to retreat in the first place. He should have died by that headshot, if not the shot after that. If you run towards a sniper with a shotgun in any other game, that's a death scentence, much like it's a death scentence for a sniper to be running into range of a shotgun user. A certain WoW anology comes to mind. When it comes to balance it's paper/rock/scissors > Sniper. I just can't get this quote out of my head: "we want people to be able to react" There's something about that, that massively and extremely pisses me off so bad, it makes me want to slap the person in the face who said it. In my play session tonight, each time I died I was like: "No FAIR, I didn't have a chance to react!!" I've been sending people tells even. Like: "Hey man... shooting me in the back with that tank of yours?.... is really unfair man. Could you give me a chance to react next time?" Or yell: "Could everyone PLEASE give me a chance to react, because not getting a chance to react is UNFAIR" God.... I'm fuming.....
That's the mentality of a run and gun oriented player. They don't understand the mechanics of sniping nor how to balance them out...automatically assuming that they should be balanced within the same manner that they are. It just doesn't work like that, you can't balance sniping like you do a run and gun oriented class...or you destroy the very think that makes sniping what it is. I've noticed a lot more people neglecting to challenge my rants lately, and I believe that's due to one of two reasons: They're starting to understand. They're too lazy to read my epic walls of text.
I have been ranting about this since februari when more users starting to equip nanoweave, and I started to get more and more kill denails. Nothing much has changed since then about this issue, simply because they apparantly don't see it as an issue. I know this is a game right? But each time I see someone standing completely still on a ledge somewhere, and I headshot him and not getting a kill, I am like : "why the hell am I even bothering!?" Sniping is not fun. It appears intentional. Getting one shotted from 500 meters away is annoying, sure. But headshotting 5 people in succession, without even getting one kill, is downright infuriating, and not enjoyable in any way. I know for a fact that this forum does get read by developers. This thread has become rather large, and someone must have read this, or is reading this. So to the dev team: please, please look into bolt action rifles, and their place in the battlefield. Sniping is really not enjoyable, or rewarding in any way at all. Balance them out towards something worth using. High damage rifles that kill with two shots. Add bulletdrop to compensate and increase the skill needed to hit. Battlefield 3 sniping was perfectly balanced. The farther the target was, the more difficult it was to aim, but you would always kill your target with a headshot, or two bodyshots. Planetside 2 and Battlefield 3 aren't all that different. It won't break the game. I would even sacrifice my cloak, if that meant I would be able to snipe properly.
I feel that there has been a drop in NW users in favor for ASC as I have not run into as many kill denials as I used to.
So as the first few posters said, they're adding NEW rifles to address the issue!? how very typical. Bloody hell SOE, so much for having standards.
That is not true at all. Sure the best way to kill a sniper is to use another sniper. The same way the best way to kill an esf is with another ESF, but when it comes to balance the best way to kill something does not equal the only counter. Smoke between you and a sniper and now you are completely safe for the duration. Zoom optics on accurate weapons (the render distance is only 300m) can land enough shots to stop a sniper from doing his job, and even kill him if he sticks around long enough. Tanks and harassers can also use some of their 1 shot weapons to easily kill a sniper who is not moving. ESFs with thermal vision can locate a sniper while he is uncloaked and rocketpods are nearly inescapable at that point. Light assaults can watch for tracers and use their jetpack to close the distance before a sniper has time to move to a new spot. All it takes is one of these things, and even a very careful sniper in a very good position can be countered effectively. Stop being lazy and making broad statements, unless you can provide a counter argument that explains how EVERY counter I just listed is not viable, then you were wrong to say snipers are the only counter to other snipers.
So you are trying to justify bad balance because of your own personal opinion? I think rocketpods and lock on launchers are two of the most annoying things in the game, but I don't go on the forums and complain about them because neither is OP. As long as the game mechanics are balanced, being annoyed is fine, because I know some people enjoy things that I hate. Your entire argument is snipers are annoying? I know countless snipers that have been struggling for months because of the imbalances we face in trying to play the game in a way we enjoy. We don't want to be overpowered, and we don't want other people's playstyles nerfed just because we find them annoying. We want to be able to play our class and use its weapons the way they are designed to be used. A sniper rifle is not designed to be used in fights <50m because it stats are sub-par for that range, but nanoweave pushes us that close and sometimes closer if we want to keep the OHK that the weapon is balanced around. This puts the skill floor of the sniper extremely high and is one of the reasons people think snipers are not useful. You have to be pretty good to preform at another classes average within 50 meters, and outside of 50m no matter how good you are you are literally always under-performing due to nanoweave. Some of the best snipers in this game will tell you that they can do almost anything else and get a higher score/be more useful. Removing nanoweave's ability to prevent sniper OHKs will not invalidate anyone's playstyle. It will not imbalance the game. It will not do anything but raise the usefulness of snipers back up to an average level. For some reason this pisses people off so much, and those people (including you) have the ignorance to go on the forums and come up with all these ******** excuses about why sniping should stay the way it is. I am usually pretty levelheaded when discussing this because I want to convey an intelligent argument that gets people to consider my points. Honestly though, **** you for trying to argue snipers should be underpowered because you find them annoying. You don't want a fair game, and you are not trying to promote balance. If people like you would talk a little less, maybe SoE could sift through the forums and see some legitimate balance issues.
I find your lack of empathy and insight disturbing. You just refuse to step out of your own little bubble, and see the larger picture. As I said: "Subjective" Unfortunatly, subjective opinions matter when it comes to attracting customers. It doesn't have anything to do with balance. Similar to our friend DeadliestMoon here, many people find snipers annoying, without being to properly explain why they are annoying, or what makes them overpowered. Deep down they know that snipers aren't overpowered, and do take skill to use (otherwise they'd be sniping themselves), but resent those players who have learned how to effectively kill people with just one shot, from far range. Unfortunatly for us they are in the majority, and the majority counts for SoE, because they bring in more cash.
To be honest, I didn't think any of this was true until I read this and looked into it. It's a bit... bizarre. You should be able to react and one hit kill weapons should never be in games? What they don't understand is that if you die in the game, it is your fault. (not including glitches and crashes, of course). If you got shot by a sniper, it is your fault because you made yourself a target. If you were shot in the back by an infiltrator, you were outwitted or weren't paying attention. Again, simple as that. I really don't see what else there is to consider. If I wanted to take it deeper, I'd say it's part of the natural human reaction to blame everything but ourselves for our shortcomings. I know I fall victim to that trap sometimes. Whenever I'm killed by one of those vanu scum, I mutter under my breath that it was their OPness that made me die. I know in reality, though, that it was because I screwed up that I died. In the same way, when a heavy dies to a sniper rifle headshot, they want to say how overpowered a one hit kill weapon is. What they forget, though, is that sniping from 200 meters is very difficult and even quite dangerous, and the sniper is only overpowered to the heavies that make themselves easier targets. It's odd- snipers stop being so overpowered against enemies that move. Weird, huh? But, you know, I want to be able to react to shotgun wielding light assaults. I no longer want them to do damage to me. I want them to shoot bright rainbows before damage is done. Point is, players who want to get better, and yes, I learned this the hard way, need to accept and understand why they failed rather than blame everything else for being overpowered.
Heh... I've stopped sniping, taken up the SMG because it's the only lucrative option we currently have... I've been picked off by snipers, and it's not the most annoying thing in the game because I understand the time they have spent to obtain that kill, you do not. In fact, most of your snipers will chuckle when they're taken out by another sniper while thinking to themselves, "Nice shot." I've often complimented snipers who have taken me out on the field, because I know the deserve it...because I've played the class to understand how it works. Most Infiltrators, who have taken up another class, don't get killed by sniping Infiltrators...because they know where to keep moving and where not be a complete moron and hold still for several seconds. We don't even need nanoweave to do it. No, what I find to be the most annoying thing in the game are Light Assaults, I have ever since the very start of Planetside 2 because of their extreme mobility and capability to take up advantage points I can't access...and now they have shotguns. Not that I want to see them crippled because they annoy me, that's stupid...I admire their capabilities as much as I loathe them. With that said, the only playing style I actually enjoy within first person shooter games is downright crippled within Planetside 2. Now, I know what you're thinking...the same thing all you crazy kids do in regards to people who don't agree with your ignorant, mindless, banter "Go find another game then." Yeah...all your dedicated snipers will just find another game, leaving a game that already has population problems all because your run and gun oriented players are "annoyed" about a perfectly balanced playing style. That's probably the most "intelligent" idea I've heard on the forum. My apologies for being so snarky, but I'm getting sick of the new age gamers. You didn't have people crying about being annoyed in game due to a perfectly balanced playing style...only hacking. Now days, if you can't win by spraying bullets at a target...people cry. For the first time since Planetside 2's release, my confidence in the game has faltered because a developer doesn't understand the fundamental mechanics behind sniping and feels it shouldn't exist without a mechanic that completely nullifies its entire ability to perform. So, for the first time since release, I'm left considering how long I'll be playing which most likely revolves around what transpires after this upcoming update. If we can't snipe, there's no reason for me to be here.
I feel the same way. As if hearing the developer speaking about the INF update and exclaiming things like: "I look forward to use Stalker cloak to sneak behind lots of enemies and shoot them with my Commisioner revolver" OR "You will be able to sneak behind MAX units, and blow them up with your proximity mines" wasn't enough for me to lose faith. Just that one statement: "We don't want bolt actions to OHK, because we want people to have chance to react" has seemingly made me lose hope it'll ever be changed into something I can be happy with. Seemingly they stick to their own ideas about snipers, and don't use the information and suggestions from the people who have the most experience in playing them --> us the players. They say they listen to their players. To a certain extent they did. Infiltrators have been improved, but it's all oriented on CQB. So, maybe they should rephrase that to: "We listen to our players, exept if they like sniping" Perhaps I just need to take a break from this game, and wait for the dust to settle abit.
Well it's not just that they're annoying, it's also unfair to go up against them at long range, haven't you been paying attention?
I'm a free to play player, yes they are annoying, and even though they aren't overpowered, they still are unfair to go up against at long range.
Perfectly balanced? Oh come on, sniping is not perfectly balanced. You kill people from far away with very little risk to yourself and the only thing you can say to counter yourself is to: 1. not stand still (so damn anyone who decides to check the map) and 2. stay out of the open (which is further enforcing the fact that most engagements are CQC, therefore making shotguns seem overpowered).
With regards specifically to this point (..and not the rest of what you've taken the time to write!): For myself and many other Infiltrators, I believe you'll find that we make an enemy a target, by sneaking into positions that provide oblique opportunities for shots. While I'm sure the enemy would practice 360 degree 24/7 surveillance if possible, it's simply not possible, especially not all the time. :: Sniping is great fun. Being sniped is horrible. It's not a new phenomenon. The feeling - yes, feeling, not intellectual justification - of *seemingly* having no control over being killed is horrible. The cloak and, in my specific experience, the RAMS provide excellent tools for.. ranged.. sneak attacks. The problem is, sneak attacks are, by their very nature, 'sneaky'. Who likes to be sneakily attacked? Killed? Not I and or many others. Hence the rage, the angst, the emotional backlash - which is something very real, very well documented, that the designers have to consider and have chosen to react to, as we can cleary see in the current state of the game. While I could expect the enemy to move and act as if their were always snipers, everywhere, all the time, focusing on any position outside of cover (and even when an enemy is behind cover, we can and do get them!) I don't feel the expectation is particularly reasonable. (I wouldn't enjoy it - though I do react as if this was true. Hence I play an Infiltrator (and spam the bejeesus out of the cloak.) :: This is not to say I don't want OHK sniping at all ranges - I'd love it! I'm a vindictive evil 'That's what we call tactical superiority' TR Infiltrator. Of course I want it!
Sniping has always been the bane of FPS games. If you're afraid to die a virtual death while attempting to kill the enemy, then play a less stressful game like Tetris.
So pretty much you are just here to troll right? People have made multiple posts that are multiple paragraphs long trying to explain their points of view and opinions. The only thing you seem to come back with is, "snipers are annoying and dying to them is unfair."
Sniping for me is not about being afraid to die. I have always played the range class, or the sneaky class in every game I play. I don't do it because I am afraid of death, for me personally, I do it because I am forced to think more than when I play other classes. I am not saying classes like HA and LA don't have as much depth, but I find when I play them I stop thinking very much and just kind of point myself in the enemies general direction and try to kill things. This is nothing against those classes, I am not saying they are dull or inferior in any way. Its just a personal preference that I have always had. There is something about being able to outrange my opponents that just clicks with me, the same way being able to outmaneuver people clicks with some light assaults. I don't play sniper because I fear a virtual death, I play it because that play style fits my personal preference very well.
