[Suggestion] Sniper feels more and more useless

You seem not to read my posts at all:

Again you seem not to read my posts at all:

PA are ok because THE PA USER IS WITHIN MY WEAPON RANGE WHILE SNIPER IS NOT.

Again you seem not to read my posts at all:

there - difference! they need to take a RISK. sniper takes no risk. Actually he is 100x safer then engy, medic, or anyone else.

I disagree. The reward should be proportional to risk involved. Sniping has zero risk involved, and should not be more effective than it already is.

I said bye to the idea of making snipers OHK everything on headshot.

to discuss the matter and exchange arguments in civilised manner, which you seem to have some trouble with.

I used to play on both sides, sniper and target. I have auraxium for my stock sniper rifle. Now I have Longshot and I'm fine with some headshots not kill my enemies. They spent cert and used suit slot to avoid OHK from far distance, it's fair. Maybe for extreme range sniping it's better to take semi-auto, not so hard to send 2 bullets in 0.5 seconds, I will give it a try.

not many people know about this.. its a secret

i didnt read your whole posts because they r full of ****

you just seem like a player that gets mad when he is killed by a sniper because you forgot to MOVE. thats your w a s d keys. in the beginning smedly said we could snipe people from 1000 metres away. infantry doesnt render that far but worse of all, we cant ohk from a fifth of that distance....

the current gameplay deters people from sniping. its cool... they want more COD kiddies running in CQC. it gives them money. its fine. to me and many others sniper headshots should almost guarantee a OHK. either that give the infiltrator class more health if they want me running in CQC.. simple

just proving my point. falling back to insulting does not help in the slightest.

No. Unlike you, i don't get "mad". And if you read my posts, you would know that i have nothing against being killed by sniper. I have everything against being killed by any infantry with one hit, without any chance to retaliate.

sadly, they (@ SoE) said many things about gameplay that aren't true anymore / never were.

I'm completely fine with buffing smg infils health. make it same as engy/medic/la (those three classes have the same hp right?) At least i will have a chance of reacting and retaliating against the threat.

Thank you for making my point for me. I'm not saying anything about your skills as a sniper that you already haven't, but according to you, you're not the best sniper around. You only played for an hour and missed most of your shots, so you can't understand the perspective of someone who's spent seven months learning how to be effective with the class.

I in no way support this notion that body shots should OHK, that's absurd and if the Devs ever go that far I'll put down my sniper until they fix it again, but you simply cannot understand how it feels for those of us who get headshots 98% of the time to be constantly blocked by Nanoweave.

You can only see the issue from the perspective of people who get sniped, of course your opinion is going to be bias. The truth is, because I play a sniper, and because I know exactly what snipers have to go through to get those headshots, I don't mind one bit when a skilled sniper OHKs me while I'm moving when I play other classes. I know better than most to not stand still out in the open, so if I do and I get headshot by a sniper, then I only got what I deserved.


There are three things that every sniper learns if they stay with the class for more than a week;

1.) Sniping does not make you safe. It is not easy mode to pull off those medium to long range shots, even without a suppressor. The reason is our bullet velocity is ungodly slow and all too often our targets will move after we pull the trigger. At that point, there's absolutely nothing we can do but try and take another shot, which is rarely realistic. In addition, being 300 meters from your target does not necessarily make you safe either. In the best case scenario there are enemy counter snipers to worry about, and in the worst case scenario you're behind enemy lines, which means at any moment someone could walk right up behind you and knife you in the back. There is no such thing as zero-risk sniping. It does not exist in this, or any other FPS.

2.) Most of the players you OHK will be BR 18 or lower. The reason for this one should be obvious, it's because they're inexperienced players who probably don't use Nanoweave at all. No one likes this, not even snipers. Snipers are the only class in the game that are ineffective against high BR players, so what happens when all those lowbies rank up? This game was sold on skill trumping levels and gear. There was never supposed to be a passive cert upgrade or fancy weapon that could prevent anyone, infantry, vehicle or aircraft, from being effective against BR 100 players. This is simply not true for snipers, and lesson number 3 details why.

3.) If you don't kill with your first shot, you're ******. Sometimes low BR players will stand there, or slowly crawl away after you land a body shot or a headshot that failed to kill. Sometimes they'll run for cover and pop out a second later, allowing you to finish them off easily. But the high BR players, the ones that have experience with this same situation again and again, they look for the directional arrow that shows up whenever you're hit by anything. They make a mental note of where the shot came from, consider all the possible places the sniper could be, narrow down the sniper's location and send someone in their squad (usually a LA) to go and deal with the sniper.
Believe it or not, this is actually a best case scenario, since the sniper at least has a chance to intercept his or her assassin before the LA reaches them. In the worst case scenario, the sniper is close enough to their target that they just turn and blast them out of their cover. If the sniper tries to cloak and escape then they're equally as screwed, since it's so easy to see 'invisible' Infiltrators while they're moving, and if they're not glowing they're automatically a target. A sniper has no chance against full auto fire, and that is a balanced weakness we accept in exchange for our supposed long range killing power.

Take away our OHKs and what do we have? It's unreasonable to ask us to carefully line up our headshot, account for distance, bullet drop, bullet speed and the movement of our target, then pull of a second miracle shot when our first carefully placed headshot fails to kill. I do not believe that it's even remotely fair to have a mechanic in place that says that a sniper will always lose to a Medic (or any other non-sniper class) of the same skill level, but unfortunately it doesn't stop there. The way Nanoweave currently works it means that a sniper will always lose to another player of lesser skill, as long as they have enough certs to drop on a passive buff that requires no effort to use.

Honestly, if any other weapon or class in the game was effected by Nanoweave in the same way that BASRs are, it would have been patched out months ago. And if you still think that all of this is somehow balanced or fair;



...think again.

Can't snipe due to damage drop off and nano
Can't infiltrate due to buggy graphic settings and glow

Best to hack a terminal
And change classes

While i generally agree with what you said above, i have one reservation - moving does not protect from headshots. It mitigates them by a significant factor, agreed, but if headshots OHK'd each time then entire balance is shifted towards the sniper - either he hits, or he doesn't, and there is nothing i can do about it, because i can't even know where he is. When, for example, pump action OHKs me, i know i made mistakes - i didn't keep enough awareness of my surroundings, i didn't see him coming and allowed him to get too close. That is not true for sniper, because he is controlling entire situation - nothing i do matters, it's just a question of whether a sniper can hit a moving target.

Agreed. Still, the risk involved seems to be much lower, since even such bad sniper as me was killed after ~1h of sniping. I understand that the sample is very limited, but my complete lack of experience with sniping in PS2 should warrant i get contersniped / killed by other means faster then after 1 hour. Instead i got one of my better killstreaks. And the battle was kind of big, looked like ~35-40 people from either side. <- i acknowledge this might have been pure luck.

Just a note - i can't tell what is/was/isn't/wasn't supposed to be in PS2 anymore. Game seems to try to move in every direction at once, and i don't quite see whats SoE's intended direction/target.

This assumes that target is @ full health. In battle however, when i look around, something like 30% of people seem to be already wounded (less then 80% hp), making them OHK-able even with full shield. And, in battle, even if you don't kill, you just made life of first ally to meet your target way better. And this works both ways - enemy that got shot just once-twice by ally, still with his shield up, is OHK-able.

I recall you (or was it someone else?) calling PS2 combined arms game - that's just it - sniper (team) provides support for his unit, not does unit's job for them.

That is simply not true in 1v1 scenario when in beginning sniper and target are > 100~150m away. Sniper can kill that medic 5 times over in time it takes medic to get in weapons range.

I saw that video before. Seriously? Using sniper rifle on distance of around 10~15 meters and expecting to win against guy with weapon tailored for max killing effectiveness at around that range?

Also, this happens to me from time to time (medic runs, heals and kills me when i chase). Taught me to always switch to pistol and trying to finish them off instead of reloading.

Also, there is something strange about this killscreen - how does this medic have full shield? Simply not possible...

Didnt they make health not render after a certain distance making it impossible for snipers to cherrypick wounded targets?

edit: it sounds like you're trying to push snipers into that ghetto AA was in for a while where they're just a deterrant.

[quote="That is simply not true in 1v1 scenario when in beginning sniper and target are > 100~150m away. Sniper can kill that medic 5 times over in time it takes medic to get in weapons range.


I saw that video before. Seriously? Using sniper rifle on distance of around 10~15 meters and expecting to win against guy with weapon tailored for max killing effectiveness at around that range?

Also, this happens to me from time to time (medic runs, heals and kills me when i chase). Taught me to always switch to pistol and trying to finish them off instead of reloading.

Also, there is something strange about this killscreen - how does this medic have full shield? Simply not possible...[/quote]

You do realize just how stupid you made yourself look with that bolded comment right? After all you said about snipers, you have the gall to actually say that the medic was using the right weapon, and the sniper was not. FYI that "sniper" rifle in the video is the one designed for medium engagements, so in actuality it IS the right weapon for a sniper (infiltrator) at that range. So a sniper "expecting to win against [a] guy with a weapon tailored for max killing effectiveness at around that range,"' i.e appropriate range for the sniper BA, has no complaint? Go away please and don't come back.

Sorry my quoting sucks, I don't like to get sucked into these discussions and try to stick with only giving advice and sharing knowledge, but your post is so infuriating to read I had to say something.

No, i think that is just groundlaying for implants. 100% that there will be "revert health bar nerf" implant availible. Station Cash only of course

Maybe a bit... still, it's not like snipers don't get kills with current state of things.

PS
I was always advocate for strong AA. Strong AA, or rebalancing A2G so that Libs are used for attacking ground, and ESFs for hunting Libs and other ESFs, with ESFs still retaining some A2G ability, not comparable to Libs tho.

Excuse me? Since when you use SNIPER RIFLES to engage on distance of 15 meters?

I don't think snipers should have a one hit kill. The problem with this is that there are usually multiple snipers in a big fight.

A sniper should be aiming for the weakest opponents. FYI headshots with a bolt driver do one shot most of the time and the only exception might be a heavy with nanoweave and a shield active which is fair because that just means their investment was worth it.

That BAR he is using in the video is the medium range/close range alternative for BARs. According to all the people out there (like you) that are saying "snipers" need to get off their rock and risk themselves, to circumvent the nanoweave 5, we HAVE to be this close, THAT is the problem, and then to top it off, since this BAR isn't the Longshot (or faction equivalent) it STILL won't OHK at under 30m. I use SAS-R sniper rifle at 15m range all the time, It's not the range I would like to operate at, as I am at a disadvantage, but its the one that has the iron sights, its MEANT to be used or at least viable at that range. Getting a HS, and being denied the kill at that range is a death sentence for that infiltrator, and in my opinion broken. That medic should have died no questions asked. With the changes to weapon swap times, performing a follow up shot with the pistol does not work, the medic responded and found cover and was fully healed before the infiltrator could re-engage him. Maybe the infiltrator was slow, hard to say, I find that the delay in weapon swap has caused me a lot of deaths as well.

I have to point out that, once again, you only see this from the target's perspective. You assume that all there is to the situation is the sniper and his target, when that is very rarely the case. I really do understand how people can get this impression, but I'd like to share what it's actually like when snipers scope in on a potential target.

There are so many variables to account for, movement being the largest one but far from all there is. Truthfully the variables are so numerous that I couldn't possibly list them all, but one of the major things that comes into play is the lack of situational awareness that comes with looking down a scope.


When you scope in on a target most of your screen is blacked out, and you have an extremely narrow field of vision to work with. All you can really see is your target, what they're doing, and if they're about to give you an opening to take your shot. A good sniper knows, almost above all else, to be aware of their surroundings at all times, but while a sniper is looking down their scope they have a massive blind spot in their situational awareness that many people know how to exploit. When I'm hunting snipers, either as a sniper or any other class, I'll wait until they raise their weapon to scope in because I know I have the largest window of opportunity to strike while their focus is elsewhere.

The moment a sniper scopes in they lose control of the bigger picture. They become blind to their immediate surroundings, which is taking a huge risk. You can scope in to steady your shot on a perfectly still BR 2 player with no Nanoweave, but miss the fact that an enemy player just rounded the base of your tree and is now standing behind you. You could scope in on a distant engineer on his turret and completely miss the enemy counter sniper that just uncloaked 20 meters away from the engineer with his sights on you. You could scope in on a medic trying to revive his allies and miss the enemy tank that just came over the hill to your right. Lots of things can go wrong in the few seconds that the sniper is blind to everything else but his target, and the good ones know that. We can compensate a bit with our cloak, but even that isn't perfect and I can honestly say that most of my deaths as a sniper occur while I'm scoped in on someone else.

The sniper/target relationship may be more singular, but it is a very, very small part of the overall battle and a sniper that can't keep track of the battle is one that doesn't live long. There are always people out there looking for snipers. Always. Whether they're counter sniping or just looking for an easy snack, snipers are a favorite kill of many. Good snipers don't just have to make sure they land kills with every shot, they have to do it while staying hidden or their lives will come to a quick end.


More variables that ensure the sniper has little to no control over the situation are things that the sniper can't possibly know. Is the target using Nanoweave? If he is, what direction is he likely to run once I shoot him so I can at least have a chance at a followup shot? Is the target going to move after I pull the trigger, but before my bullet reaches him? Should I take the shot and risk spooking him or wait a second longer for a better opening? Is that Engineer about to jump back in his tank or do I have another second to steady my shot? There are so many eventualities that can occur with sniping and we have to account for every single one in the span of 1~2 seconds. That's more effort than any other class in the game has to put into their play, yet we reap the lowest rewards of all. Little experience, fewer and fewer kills and a horrifically low SPM.

Where you're at and how often you miss factors in a lot to how often you die. You're actually far less likely to be killed if you miss completely than you are if you miss your target's head but hit their body. The reason is because if your bullet lands in the ground next to them, unless they heard it whistle through the air past their head, they won't be alerted to your presence. You said you missed most of your shots, so it doesn't surprise me that you went for about an hour without being killed.

That said, skilled snipers who aim for the heads but fail to kill because of Nanoweave are far more likely to be killed themselves than snipers who can hardly hit their targets at all. I'm sorry, but this just doesn't seem fair to me. It's almost like a direct punishment for being good with a BASR.

As a side note, I didn't mean to insult you with anything I have said so far. I'm simply pointing out my reasoning.

It's frustrating, isn't it? Personally that was the reason I decided to play. I was sick of other shooters where I would have to invest hours and hours and hours of playtime just to unlock the perks to put me on par with the veterans that do almost nothing else with their lives but play video games. I thought Planetside 2 would be a refreshing change, and for a little while it was.

I dearly hope SOE remembers what they set out to accomplish and sticks to that model in the coming months.

I think 30% might be a bit generous, but let's run with that for now.

Think of the odds. A sniper has a 30% chance of scoping in on a wounded target and finishing them off with a lucky shot. I already don't like those odds, because that means 70% of the time my target will have full health and shields.
Realistically, no one under 80% health will be standing still. The'll be running for cover or for the nearest medic, making pulling off a shot on them difficult at best. That's if you can even see them in the first place. I know when I take a big hit in CQC the first thing I do is duck behind cover and use a medkit, then I wait for my shields to go back up and I get back in the fight seconds later as if nothing happened.

I respect that hitting a target with a headshot that fails to kill makes it easier for my allies to finish them off for me, but I still don't think it's fair that the class is reduced to that. Since people discovered the miraculous anti-sniper powers of Nanoweave, my kills have dropped like a rock and my assists have skyrocketed. I don't play the sniper to help give cheap kills to my allies. I play the sniper to get kills myself and support my team by doing it. After all, if I take the time to line up that perfect shot and hit pixels half the size of a dime I deserve to get the kill from it, not some lucky guy on my team who happened to run into the enemy that I wounded.


A sniper providing support for their unit is not defined as wounding targets for their allies to finish off. There are countless ways a sniper can - is supposed to, even! - use their lethality to benefit their team.

Think of those fights where you run up on a satellite base that's heavily fortified by turret operators and heavy assaults keeping your tanks pinned down. Guess what class is perfect for taking those anti-armor players out of the equation so your MBTs can move up?

A line of Engineers on a hill, each in an AV turret, raining rockets on your allies as they desperately try to move AMS sunderers up into position to deploy. No one can get near those engineers because of the heavies and MAX units protecting them. Long range firepower is a must in this situation, and the only way your platoon will make any progress clearing out the entrenched defenders.

Your platoon is pinned down in a spawn room by a massive MAX crash. They haven't even bothered to flip the point because they know, without a doubt, that they have the upper hand and they're enjoying the cert farm too much to end it. There's one weakness in the enemy offense; the Engineers keeping the MAX units alive, and the Medics keeping those Engineers alive, but no one can reach them because they're hiding behind cover, safe from the windows of your spawn room.
One single sniper flanks the group and pumps bullets into the Engineer's skulls and pops the heads of the medics that try to revive them. Suddenly the MAXes have no repairs, and your platoon is able to push out and drive back the entire offensive because of precise pressure applied by the only class that could have had any significant effect in that situation (Side note, I'm speaking from personal experience here).


No single class can do an entire unit's job for them, and snipers don't pretend to. But there are many situations in which a sniper can turn the tables and win a battle that was going south. There are, of course, situations where other classes can have this effect, but for snipers to be able to contribute reliably they need to be able to kill with their first shot, otherwise they'll be dead before they can rechamber their rifles.

This assumes that there's no cover for the medic to hide behind. There are some places on Indar and Esamir where this is true, but they are very few and far between. Often there's at least a rock or a tree for them to run behind and heal.

A shot that lands and OHKs a target is difficult to trace, because when you die suddenly like that you're taken by surprise and by the time you have enough sense about you to register what happened, the damage arrow is gone. But a shot that lands and doesn't kill alerts the player instantly to what happened; a sniper took a shot, but failed to kill. The second the player realizes that, they look for where that shot came from. In addition to the arrow they also have the sound of where the bullet came from to go on. This goes double if the sniper takes a second shot and misses. By then, there's no doubt in that medic's mind exactly where the sniper is.

In a 1v1 between a medic and a sniper, all the medic needs to do is pop out and shoot until he gets shot, then duck back into cover to heal and let his shields recharge, then rinse and repeat until the sniper goes down. However, PS2 is not a 1v1 game. In reality, as soon as a medic is shot by a sniper that doesn't kill them, all they have to do is alert their squad and someone the sniper isn't focused on will take him out.

At 10~15 meters that should have been a OHK. There's absolutely no excuse for a direct headshot at that distance from the highest powered rifle in the game to leave anyone alive. It doesn't matter if that's the effective range of any other weapon in the game, if a sniper is able to headshot you at that distance before you realize he's there, you deserve to die, and he deserves to get a kill.

The shield recharge delay is about 7-8 seconds. Over 12 seconds passed between when he first shot that medic and when the medic came back into his line of sight. There was plenty of time for his shields to recharge to full. There's nothing strange about it. It's a legitimate video illustrating how big of a problem this is for snipers.


Sorry for the long post, but there are always two sides to every story. Snipers may look like bad guys to you for wanting to OHK, but to us the rest of you trying to deprive us of the only thing our weapons can do just looks selfish. I'm not calling you selfish, but that's how we feel. You guys get rifles that fire off insane RPM, we get a 5 bullet clip and a maximum of 60 shots after a heavy cert investment. All we can do with it is make sure each of our bullets are a OHK, but take that away and we have nothing. We're just a useless class that can't contribute to our teams without more pain and frustration than it's worth.

Death happens in this game. It happens a lot. Why is one type of death being singled out as any worse than all the others? Why do people have such a huge problem with being headshot by snipers, but not so much of a problem with being blown up by liberators or anti-infantry MBTs? Why is being OHKed by a carefully placed headshot so much worse than being blown up by a careless noobtube HA rocket to the face?

Please, don't say it's because you don't have a chance to defend yourself. In reality, you don't have a chance to defend yourself from most of the stuff that happens in this game. CQC is a clusterf*ck where at any given moment you can be taking damage from the guy in front of you, the guy behind you, and the guy that is hip firing wildly from 50 meters to your right. Add a splash of grenades and sprinkle on a few AP mines and you have yourself an I-didn't-have-a-chance cocktail.

You're the one who keeps mentioning other classes can't retaliate against snipers. Well, here's your ******* chance.

That's the BASR with the low-powered scopes. He landed a headshot at least once. A headshot from the other side of the room and he didn't die. How is that possible? A headshot from 15m (you're words, not mine) and he still didn't get the kill.

Seriously, what more do you need? If you fail to grasp the issue now you're either a troll or an idiot.

You spoiled brats should be glad that you may actually ohk targets from further ranges at all in a game like this. Look at it that way:

You not only get the ability to ohk a broad variety of targets, except those few wearing nanoweave, you also get a freaking ton of targets to choose from in general, in addition to an overwhelming amount of hiding spots in a huge open world. You also get camos that blend well with the environment and to top it off you get the ability to cloak and become practically invisible at long distances, in chaotic battles, but especially for people with bad framerates (which must be a significant amount of players). I wager that there's currently no other FPS out there that provides snipers such an easy time to farm away.

Personally I would of never even put ohk SRs in a game like this, as it is hard to actually balance it so that it doesn't get out of control and completely dictates multiplayer gameplay (just like it happened to so many other FPSs) but is not too up so that it is still enjoyable when you're the one who's sniping.

Too much power to sniper rifles and you likely get a game of snipers. Many other FPSs have proven this. It's often gotten to the point where other classes that actually existed in the game completely vanished becaue of this. And so did a lot of players eventually.
If you've got up snipers, it sucks too, but unless SRs are flat out useless, which we're far from in this game mind you, there's still a good chance that people use the SRs, since sniping is and is always going to be a popular playstyle in FPSs, especially if you get fancy stuff like cloaking in addition.

SOE did a great job at solving this Imo. It's perfectly fine. Just suck it up that there's one guy out of 25 using NW, and thus survives your headshot with a sliver of health. Just line up a second shot to somewhere at his body finish him off. You might even do so with a single hit from your pistol from a mile away considering that he's almost dead anyway. Or just move your mose one or two inches and put the crosshair on the next guy, y'know, one of the many other players in this game (that doesn't use nanoweave or already lost some of his HP)

LOL! Who doesn't use NW? **** it, even I have fully certed on my Infil. You're delusional.

Take a look for yourself:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...eave-vs-basrs-with-evidence-and-logic.137287/

Useless wut? Infiltrators has always been good. Shoot everyone from afar. When I first started playing this game my first impression was that infiltrator was the best class and made the biggest difference in infantry battles.

How would you compare it to BF3 where you can be 3km away in a prone position? In PS2 there is laughable amount of cover in most places. You have 1 tree, 3 rocks total and that's it because polygon budget doesn't allow for more.

broad variety of targets? like half of population not leaving their rides even for a second and then crapload of MAXes?
now substract HAs who max their nano for maximum survivability and AV engineers in the back who fear only headshots from the side/back and what's left? few medics, LAs and infiltrators. Yup. Very broad.

And you are wrong.
Do you think you can chill out in the back as a sniper? Do that and your head will get blown off in 20 seconds by some countersniper who does nothing but scans the skyline and all elements of plausible cover.
And it's not like bad framerate helps with sniping. Good luck putting that X on a pixel sized target when your screen refreshes 20 times per second.

Personally i think you would create nothing more but a sad parody of combined arms wargame, where feelings of victims are more important than getting the job done.
snipers in this game are hard countered by anything mechanical. If they suddenly start to be a problem you can simply run them over with OP harassers that are armed with ungodly powerful cannons, appear out of nowhere and leave pretty much no chance to bail. Or send few scout radar ESFs and they are dead. You can't defend at all against them as an inf (unlike in BF3 where you can kill drivers and pilots)

SOE did ****. They don't understand their own game and they weren't even able to implement nanoweave without bugs that had to be discovered by INFs.
There was nothing to solve. Infs trailed in spm hard from the beginning (even when they could ohk pretty much anybody) and they still do. If you think it's 1 NW user in 25 guys you are dreaming.
We apparently don't know how to play this game so how about you show us how it's done. Post your deeds on youtube so we can all learn.

which one? I don't know how to recognize nanoweave nor wounded guys. Do you think i print bullets and have an infinite hold breath? And that endless stream of hit markers won't convince anybody to hunt me down?