LA sound on test server ... rise up brothers

Can't argue with Higby really. You have hacking as utility, but your primary directive is sniping. There were a thousand posts on it in the beta forums, but thats the way it is - atleast until you get your class pass.

Sry my friend, but your example (anecdote) proofs nothing.
This game isn´t (as most things are implemented) meant to bear a fair chance for everyone in every circumstance.

Looking from a pure infantryperspective, the HA has the shield which destroys (on even skilled enemies) every chance of another class to win a 1vs1. People already refer to PS2 as Heavyside 2. I don´t share their conclusion.
A Magrider has not a fair chance against an ESF. Nore should it.


Playing almost all classes (lest played is Medic) they have all their shares. Some have more pro´s, some more con´s.
From a statistical perspective the LA class isn´t broken overpowered nore near it.
I love to play the LA because i am a lousy shooter, but would say that i can read the battles, and know how to flank. Yes you already have to flank heavily as LA. Frontassaults bring you instant deaths as LA. Try it.
Destroying the subtility (and yes, you can hear them already) of LAs regarding sounds destroys the LA class.
Other classproblems from other classes are not valid for this discussion, as it would not be appropriate to compare ESFs with Lightnings or Sunderers regarding their capability.


Given the large scale, one of the most effective way to say somehting is broken or not in PS2 is the Score per hour, where LAs are on the bottom. So given the statistical proof that LA even in it´s current iteration isn´t overpowered or better said: overperforming, why should you change soimething that bears the possibility of breaking an entire class? We commonly say: Never change a running system. So, why, besides your anecdotical stories, should LA have even less chance to win a fight against HAs?
As mentioned before, in a fair firefight, HAs are always the winner....always!
Ahh, we shouldn´t....k...

It´s rock scissor paper... sometimes LAs are paper, sometimes rock, and sometimes scissor.

Edit: Ahh....you sure want to ask which counter LA has? Here it is: visibility. Every time i see a jetpack going up they are suspicious. Every time. I can stand next to an enemy sundie 1 hour (exagorating) but when i start to fly around it, i am dead... Now even with more sound for the blind folks... R.I.P. LA

Once again, people seem to have veered into thinking LA is meant to be a stealth class. Regardless of whether infiltrator is (and I think the very fact they have a cloak purposely designed to be stealthy - even if it sucks at remaining undetected - is clear evidence infiltrators ARE meant to be stealthy), regardless of that it does not mean that LA IS meant to be a stealth class. Once again, it is meant to be a fast flanking strike class, with the additional possibility of setting down spawn beacons ahead of a force if the short way is via going over an major obstacle. LA are also very good at quickly getting to undefended points of value, causing the enemy to commit part of their force to defending these points at all times, denying them some of that force in battle elsewhere.

The biggest evidence that the devs do NOT see LA as a stealth class is in their actions. The only more clearer way than giving you a jetpack that is so loud the very idea of stealth while using it is a laugh, is to directly ask the developers. Short of that, it should be presumed that it is not their vision for you to remain stealthy.

Does this mean you can not flank successfully? The answer is you wont be able to flank if you are too slow to lockdown the enemy before they can react to having heard you. Therefore, it is quite simply a matter of speed vs. distance and time. The distance at which you have to travel once detected and the speed at which the enemy can react and reposition vs. the speed at which you can cover that distance determines whether you can flank successfully. Remember, flanking merely means to put the enemy at a disadvantage by attacking them from the side, where they are more vulnerable because they will be using cover that is only protecting them from another direction (the direction of which they are being opposed to begin with). It does NOT mean you have caught them unaware; that is a surprise attack.

Does this mean you can not surprise the enemy? It means you wont be able to surprise a competent enemy if you approach with the jetpack. This means you either use the jetpack to get to a further-out position from which you can then surprise the enemy on foot, or you forgo the element of surprise, preferably for the advantage of speed.

Does this mean you are weaker than before? It means your first few seconds of combat with the enemy will be less of a slaughter for the enemy because they will not be quite as unprepared. However, as long as you have flanked the enemy they are now in a much weaker position and will be at a disadvantage, likely losing a lot of their force quickly due to lack of cover.

If you want to play a stealthy jetpack user then I am going to say you aren't going to like the result if the changes go live. If you want to be a successful LA however that is a different story.

Preferably, for the loss of stealth they will compensate with speed. If you keep on struggling with the argument of whether LAs should be stealthy instead of asking what you should get in compensation you may find yourself nothing.

Infiltrators were designed as snipers, light assaults as flanking classes. They're free to change them as they want to, but that doesn't mean you're right. As of now, LA are sneaky flankers with no extra health utility, team utility or decent weapons. Its been that way through alpha beta release and in between, so like I said - we're designed to be what we are, there is no oversight or bug.

You can argue stealth until you're blue, but it still wont change the fact that we were designed with low noise jetpacks and bases were designed so LA can rush and cap gens.

Design or oversight, pick which word you prefer. The fact is, that is no longer the case. You no longer have a stealthy jetpack.

You can choose to believe that some monkey got into the coding and changed the jetpack sound to be so loud stealth isn't even an afterthought - and in actual fact once the developers catch him they'll put it all back right - or you can choose to logically reason that the developers don't see the jetpack as stealth device. The former will leave you frothing at the mouth, the latter will lead you to thinking about what else needs to change to accommodate this.

I could see why you might argue if the thought and premise of a light assault using a jetpack was that it would be silent, but its an oxymoron to begin with. When you add in that there is a class whose name and tools suggest they are meant to be the stealth class, it just seems laudable to think LA is meant to be the stealth class. There is also precedent with Planetside 1's names and conventions.

How is it an oxymoron? There are plenty of irrational things about this game, the silent LA jetpack is one of the less odd ones. The LA works as a flanking class currently because we can surprise, if people listen to the TC noise and the battle isn't raging (which it isn't in the vanguard) there will be no LA generator caps in the near future.

Also, it is at TC, and not in the notes. So as many other things on TC, it is a thing they are testing. By giving feedback that we dislike this change and that if it is going through we want survivability and weaponry, we might just achieve that. Having three posts on the LA forum and one on the TC forum at least brings attention to the issue. Better than doing nothing.

No. Don´t put the LA in the beggar corner.

First you give us compensation....and dammit it should be a good one (still look at how LA isn´t overperforming!), and then you can say that in exchange the sound will be tuned up. Look. This issue is upsetting very much. If they want to nerf something without being to powerful on the battlefield they should look very well how to compensate for the loss of surprise effect. And no, you have no surprise effect anymore. You are visualy AND acusticly dismantled.

But we can, as somebody else suggested, play this game further:

- MAXes will be heard 3 rooms away footstomping, 1 room away you hear their energycells.
- Engineers supportpacks are destroyable and can only repair other machines. Not their own anymore
- Medics will yell at every revive: "Reviving, please stay here"
- HAs will make a loud noise when activating their shields and the more of the shield is away the less it will be noisy.
- Infiltrator hacks will get a sound effect of digital origin.
- Aircrafts will be heard miles away.
- Tanks will let the floor shake when they move (only so much that you know a tank is nearby

The LA in its current iteration is not a sneaky role. It has surprise on his side to appear from other angles as awaited.
surprise and sneakiness for me are not on the same table.
As I said above: A vertically jumping person is well visible and always suspicious-

How developers see some things is their thing. Obviously they looked at the same things many times from different corners.
Buffing, nerfing all on same things. When were they right? When wrong?
They nerfed armor on ESFs, then buffed it again, gave more incentive for players to destroy armor and air so indirectly nerfing them.
Nothing is set in stone.
Nore is the soundissue for LA set in stone.
When i would see that LAs are overperforming, sure i would say nothing against it. But As they are not, i ask myself why strip the second stepchild (and they admitted it, since LA got his own Roadmapissue) from his sole advance?

LA is already so easily killed in air. The LA has the flank big times to be effective, taking him out from the game for this period, making no harm. Could still be detected, tagged and killed when he arrives at his destination, because he can´t see through walls.
Get killed by mines when arriving, even when floating above the ground.

So, as you obviously have another vision of the LA, tell me how should the compensation look like? Inherent runbuff? Faster switch, faster reload? Faster jumpjet?

This game has so much issues, LA isn´t one of them...

/remembers the advertizing video with the NC lightassault....
/laughs loudly

Edith says: played my HA today in CQC... dammit, this thing is mighty. I always thought that i was bad at aiming in CQC. But with a HA... tearing people apart, concussion grenades, run into a room of helpless victims, killing maxes. Yeah, but we should first think of the "sneakiness" of LAs..

There are plenty of irrational things in the game, but this is one of those of which the developers are showing they do not agree with. It may be the case that SOE do not want LAs to be solo players flying around silently with OHKO weapons on suicide runs. They could have nerfed something else instead, but they have chosen the silent part because it does not fit into the design of the class. Team play with flanking forces is something Light Assaults could do very well, as well as provide quick hit and hold forces on unprotected (or weakly protected) points of value. Right now no one bothers because solo play works far too well with them.

I agree that arguing about how balanced something is makes a lot of sense. However, arguing with the developers choice to change the way something works altogether only makes sense if you can provide a reason for why such a choice is fundamentally wrong. You could, however, point out that balance has been lost and that this needs to be addressed; most likely by providing or agreeing with balance compensations - like the jetpack speed increase.

Edit: NucNuc, I agree, you may need compensation for this loss. I have suggested one that fits into the LA role and can help very much mitigate the issue - make jetpacks faster (acceleration and top speed, in the horizontal plane). I am sure more experience LA users can think of some other ideas that would be great. Just asking the devs not to change the sound is unlikely to work though, because it is obviously something they want to do.

This thread sure advanced a lot.
But let me just tell you that, despite the fact that I use an Infiltrator avy on the forums, ingame my classes are mainly LA, CM and Engineer. I do play INF every now and then, but it's mostly when I want some casual fun during a defense operation. But in either way, there's no "hurr durr, Inf has loud cloak, must cry over LA jetpack, durr".

As pointed out a few posts above, LA doesn't lose their ability to flank or surprise, it mainly just makes it more difficult against experienced players who actually listen to their environment. Some people even play music while gaming, so those guys will most likely never realize you're there as long as you keep some distance...given how Infiltrators can (un)cloak near people without reaction from them, I doubt that the jetpack noise is the end of LA surprise attacks, either. Unless you decide to jet up right aside an enemy, I can imagine people will still be oblivious enough to get the drop on them.

Play on the Test Server and try some of your basic strategies and see how they fare...

One idea I got for the jetpack is to rework the controls so it is more akin to an aerial vehicle, WASD causing the soldier's body to tilt somewhat (camera included), allowing you to change your pitch and possibly do very swift air direction changes for increased precision and mobility.

Nope, it is so loud that anyone can locate a LA in the area. If you're oblivious to the new LA sound on TS you might as well return to playing Flow, it is extremely loud, pulsating, directional and it increases as you approach. Kinda feels like the bat signal, you should try it before you comment on it.

Tidbit: Plenty of stuff on the TS that is either old, buggy or unintended. Also considering there has been no mention of it it is probably in early phases of testing. They're trying to gauge our reaction, or they'd simply just implement it. Thats my speculation here and I guess it is as good as any.

If we react, they will at least (hopefully) comment on it and then we've achieved something. I'd much rather keep silent jetpacks than having faster ones, ICARUS will come in time anyways. The typical LA play will suffer for this, while some shotgun-LAs will have a harder time - though not the brunt because shotgunusers are usually in large battles and there they wont hear this sound anyway. In the end tactic using teamed up LAs will suffer because of the shotgun we're allowed to buy.

I thought about that too, would be interesting. It would simply be that while in the air (i.e. not touching the ground) you would use the jumpjets to move laterally. This could even allow short 'dodge' bursts by jumping and then moving. Gravity would still apply though as currently (you have to hold space to counter gravity, rather than a toggle).

The only reason LA are stealthy currently is because people in this game don't look up often.

100 hp is trivial. It's a single bullet difference from just about anything but the Guass Saw. This penalty needs removed for infiltrators. All classes but infiltrators have shotguns and C4. They aren't unique to the LA. Outside of the jet pack, what does the LA have that count as extra attributes? Prox mines? No...Radar gun? No. Hacking? No. Revivng/healing? No. Damage mitagation shields? No. Pooping ammo/repairing things, deployable turrets, AV mines? No. A way to instantly remove 'Q' spotting while becoming nearly invisible (graphic setting dependant)? No.

LA has no special attribute but the ability to fly. Infiltrators especially seem to complain about the LA and are constantly harping about the cloak sound and the jetpack. There's one thing infiltrators are forgetting. When you cloak, you can move (run, walk, or stay put). Point being, the cloak only alerts people to a general direction of where you are. On the test center, Ash and his friends have stated the new LA sound can be heard at 35m fairly easily.

Unlike the cloak, the jump jet pack is only going to go in one direction (up) or provide slow lateral movements. There won't be a need to hunt where the LA is coming from. The noise means he/she will be coming from that direction. It'll be even worse for a LA to use the jet pack to slow a long fall from a cliff, top of a tech plant, etc. with the multple booms. This noise needs toned down a great deal on the test server. If it goes live as is, it just means I'll be shelving my LA and putting more time in to my SMG infiltrator. More so if the infiltrator invisible suit seen on the test server goes live.

Nerfs (or fixes depending on viewpoint) that affect the LA more than any other class already in game :

1. Shotgun nerfs and slug nerfs.
2. Many buildings were redesigned (metal shutters on windows) in a failed attempt to stop vehicle shelling.
3. C4 despawns when the user revives at base or sunderer.
4. Many spawn buildings changed to prevent camping (didn't work). Death field keeps LA off roof or flying nearby.

But you see, regardless of what it's "supposed" to be, the LA currently fits a nice playstyle of psuedo-stealthy hunter/stalker, lone wolf, etc. Many people, myself included, have invested many hours, certs, and real money over the last 6 months building that LA. Now for Sony to say, "Oops, that's not what we really wanted, so we are going to make your class loud as ****." That is not "balancing." That is a slap in the face to those people. You cannot compensate for this like the last shotgun balancing. All that meant is you had to apply a little more care and skill in lining up your shots. This is ********.

Not much to test from 1st person, as they play different sounds altogether. I haven't seen large battles on TS to properly gauge the noise level of the JP during combat.

Was thinking the same thing. It sounds loud, but when there's gunshots everywhere, it tends to override most sounds.

Sure, u can make infs cloak sound quieter, i dont mind that ... it just is common sense that JETPACK wich has ROCKETS on it makes MORE sound than some dude using some electronic cloaking device. >.<

and yes, i pretty much play LA/INF the same amount these days.. sitting still 99% of the time as Engi.

Why is that common sense? Have you seen any cloaking devices IRL? Do you know how much noise a cloaking device makes? The only time I've seen one I believe was on Top Gear and that required a dedicated generator to run. So no.

Opinions are opinions and not fact. And opinions shouldn't be enough basis to nerf a class.


PPS: The problem isn't with big battles, the problem is with vanguard LA squads.

Common sense takes a backseat to gameplay balance. It's why Infils can't carry shotguns anymore. If you use common sense, you'd ask yourself why a future soldier is somehow unable to use a weapon that's been around for centuries. It's not for lack of training. It's not for lack of equipment. It's simply because it was found to be unfair.

TO me and many others, the jetpack noise is fine as it is. Other people can have plenty of reasons for wanting it to be louder, that's their opinion. But "they're rockets!" isn't a valid point for a nerf.

If jetpack should have loud boom because it has rockets, then infiltrators should not have any invisible cloaks. Because, you see, such cloaks do not really exist.

Actually... http://www.hyperstealth.com/Quantum-Stealth/