Why were A2A missiles nerfed?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by The_Shruberer, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. The_Shruberer

    Recently I've been trying to use A2A missiles and the target has to practically stand still in order to lock on. Ironically enough, I find it easier to just use A2G rocks instead for A2A combat. That being said, I liked the system before the hotfix - either equip A2G missiles in order to dominate ground, or A2A in order to dominate Air and be 100% useless against ground targets. Now, it's a no-brainer decision to equip A2G rockets. I think before the patch only like 1/10 or even 1/20 ESFs used A2A rockets.

    So.... what gives? Did a game designer head this decision? I think it's pretty obvious that a rock-paper-scissors approach to multiplayer game design is effective. However, they decided to dull the scissors down and make it just as effective as rock vs. paper (Not the perfect analogy but you know what I'm getting at...). This tends to push players to just use paper (Not very wise game design)
    • Up x 5
  2. BadLizzard

    yep, they have ruined a lot of things, can't wait till I can get SC refunds and Cert refunds. There is really no need to fly anymore, and honestly it is no fun, I spend all my time dodging Ground rockets that have no missile warning. I need a 5 second cooldown on Flares
    • Up x 3
  3. 7Elite7

    As someone who primarily pilots ESFs I find this post to be a bit intimidating. A2A missiles require no skill to use, are completely broken in terms of rendering, are effectively impossible to dodge, and encourage no development of air tactics in pilots that use them. Most skilled pilots that I talk to agree that they're a complete crutch, and frankly the game would not be that much worse off without them. You wanna kill enemy air? You get in one of the other things available to you: A) Skyguard lightning B) Burster max C) Flak turrets D) Homing rockets (These need to be nerfed too, but that's another post)

    Alternately, fit your ESF with the hailstorm/rotary and actually have to aim to kill your targets. Not only does this process require some effort, but you'll find that once you get good at it it's a hell of a lot quicker to kill than A2A rockets, and the dogfight process is actually fun.
    • Up x 15
  4. Benton!

    They got nerfed?! YES!
    • Up x 7
  5. The_Shruberer

    I still think flying is very viable for A2G, but I'm just upset the developer for some unknown reason decided to unbalance a balanced system. I'd pay good money to be able to have a discussion with the decision makers on this. NO one was even complaining about it. Practically no one even used it in the first place because it already sorta sucked. The only reason I can see for this is if some developer got hit by a few A2A missiles whilst he was trying to fire a barrage of A2Gs at a tank, and in a fit of rage decided to reduce A2A lock on angles. It was impossible before the patch to EVER lock onto a target trying to pull dogfighting moves on you- forcing you to use primary fire.
    • Up x 1
  6. Morpholine

    Heck, at anything other than long ranges or targets who are not actively dogfighting, the time and effort requrerd to acquire a lock for an A2A missile would have been better spent putting nose cannon bullets into the enemy.

    I use them still, as a parting gift for enemy pilots making a run for safety (and to draw out the initial flare deployment).
    • Up x 1
  7. Hodo

    In short, because certain players cried loud enough and long enough that the powers that be decided to placate them by nerfing them.

    Honestly though they arent that bad.
    • Up x 1
  8. phungus420

    It's a good change. It's not hard to keep the lock on, and now I actually have a chance to pull evasives and try to break the lock before a scrub can fire.

    I like it, and I use A2A with the needler almost exclusively, though ground AA has forced me to infantry farm more as of late.
    • Up x 5
  9. BadLizzard

    It was the first thing I unlocked for my Scyth when I started playing, but I want my money back, they are useless, as someone said I use Pods and hailstorm and the a2a collects dust, lock on time has been awful for a long time. It's the G2A that most people are being killed with these days not A2A missiles. Moral of the story, don't buy anything with real money until they have finished nerfing things. It's like LOL champs, when they first get released they are OP so everyone wants them, then they hit them with the nerf stick.
  10. IMTasty

    They missiles themselves arenot worse, now you just have to, you know, aim AT the target instead of somewhat close to it. It's really not a big change. :s

    Rotary and stock gun are still better for AA regardless. :p
  11. The_Shruberer

    They require little skill to use, yes. So? If they are so OP why is it that only 1/15 pilots use them?

    Encourage no air tactics? TO use them, I'd fly high, and slow down to wait for other ESFs below to go into tank-strafing mode. In an ESF with A2G rockets you do the exact same freakin' thing, only with tanks!

    Again, I can see the reasoning about them being a 'crutch' - but that's not the point! Please review my rock-paper-scissors analogy. If I'm playing a game and I can choose 1 of three classes (rock paper or scissors) and I see flying papers all over the place, I'd choose a scissors class to go through and clean them up. And like I said above, once another ESF starts pulling dogfighting maneuvers, it's impossible to lock-on anyway - so what's the problem? Do those pilots want to remain at the top of the food chain? I can swoop down on burster maxes / AA turrets / HA infantry with ease. All I have to do is make sure the skygaurd/AA turrets isn't looking at me when I begin my bombing run. But I usually hear "But you can't attack a GROUP of skygaurds/AA turrets/ burster maxes!" Well yes, but it turns into a need-7-players-with-the-right-class-in-order-to-counter-a-single-player situation
    • Up x 2
  12. The_Shruberer

    Yes... like I said in my original post, I find it much easier to just equip A2G missiles for A2A now. I mean, what kind of idiot is going to equip A2A missiles now, when A2G is best for A2G and A2A <-- notice the irony?
    • Up x 2
  13. helloworldy

    No thanks, I like my A2AM.
  14. The_Shruberer

    Let me make another analogy for those who play starcraft:
    Let's say Void rays (an air unit) were powerful against ground units, buildings, and other air units. let's say the terran's Viking (an AA unit) would be it's counter. In fact, it can't hit ground forces at all. It's sole purpose in life is to take out air units. Now let's say Blizzard reduces the Viking's AA dmg to 1/4 of it's original power. SC2 players would be FURIOUS! Why? Because the sole purpose of the flying version of the viking is to obliterate air units! What kind of idiot would use them?

    Protoss players would shout: Awesome! You want to counter void rays, bro? Be protoss and build void rays! (see the silliness?)
    • Up x 2
  15. Kristan

    Wait, you can shoot enemy ESF with rocket pods but can't lock an A2A missile? My brain just exploded of such nonsense. o_O
    • Up x 5
  16. 7Elite7

    Because most people have the dignity to not use them, and/or don't want to spend certs/station cash, and/or realize that they can use A2G rockets to get more points and still hit enemy aircraft with them in a fight. (Yeah, you heard me, A2G rockets work great in close-up fights, and they actually need to be aimed! Woah!)


    You contradict yourself here. In the beginning you talk about it not looking at you. This means that either A) The occupant of said anti-air device is a complete and utter moron incapable of hearing your ESF whine behind him or B) That he is attacking a teammate. Since B is more likely in all but the phalanx turret case (And I'd like to point out that I get the most kills on phalanx turrets of the things you listed), it's likely that you have a teammate or two distracting it. You then go on to say that you need 7 players, which is clearly an exaggeration. 2 AA devices are generally enough to repel anything less than 3 coordinated ESFs or 5-6 uncoordinated ones.r

    And it's people like this that make actual ESF play a real pain in the ***. So thanks for that.
  17. 7Elite7

    Because this isn't starcraft. Skill in starcraft is not measured in terms of the balance between units. In Planetside 2, players SHOULD have easy access to anti-air that is reasonably effective. However, they should need to learn a thing or two about the game before they can correctly use the best anti-air. Because lock-on rockets require no real skill, anyone with enough certs or station cash can have access to something that's way too high on the effectiveness curve relative to its ease of use.
  18. Flix

    crap...read something wrong. I though ground to air-launchers were ment...
  19. helloworldy

    Back at ya! I would so not use A2AM if I wouldn't have to wait ages to regain resources. Oh and the best part is that sometimes you get 10(yey!!) per 5 minutes on three continents. Nice, isn't it? Frankly I'm not a pro A2A guy and don't have the time to wait and grind for resources and learn to be a decent or great or excellent pilot. So, I stick to what I have and for the most part the good (you sure you good?) guys like you make my life miserable anyway. They're not that concerned of my little puny missiles.
    • Up x 2
  20. The_Shruberer

    7elite7, regarding your first response:
    It's not because people have the dignity not to use them. If The liberator had nukes, everyone would be using them. Let's not kid ourselves here. A2A missiles are not OP. They ARE OP against other air units (go figure). Please look at my starcraft-related post for a better understanding of my viewpoints.

    regarding the 2nd response: what? I'd like to hear a situation where you'd think you can hear me coming from 500m away, high up in the sky. By the time he turns to look at me, I usually have launched all my A2G rockets and have begun circling around for the finishing pass. Also, I'm rarely the only object in the sky when I'm near AA turrets. It's especially difficult for them to see me at night.
    • Up x 1