NC is not underpowered.

I want to start this post by saying that I play TR 95% of the time, only having played NC for a little bit to test it out, so I wont be using my "experience" as a NC player to justify any of my arguments (although I WANT WANT WANT a gauss SAW as a TR heavy assault )

I really feel like NC and TR are fairly well matched in many aspects, with TR having a bit of an advantage in medium-longer ranged combat as infantry, and VS having an advantage in terms of tanks (the prowler, as much as I love driving it, and as awesome as it is in killing infantry, sucks compared to the vanguard in tank v tank battles.

the range disadvantage that the NC have can be largely mitigated by using terrain to your advantage, as most of the bases in the game have plenty of buildings and obstacles scattered around to make it fairly easy to get closer to people you are fighting.

in medium-close range infantry vs infantry fights, I find the VS to be much easier to kill than NC (except at night, when VS are invisible). I often have mutual kills (we kill each other) vs NC, implying that the two factions are pretty close to one-another. when I have good killstreaks, vs NC, it is usually because I maneuvered into a good flanking position and took them by surprise, not because I outgunned multiple people in a short period of time.

as a final note, I would like to point out that in the UES, the NC won 7 challenges, the TR won 6, and the vs won ALL of the rest, showing that in a practical application, the NC and TR performed similarly.

the only thing that has turned me off while playing NC is the real lack of acceleration on their mbt. it really handicaps the tank when it comes to pillaring with it, though this is without any upgrades but I can't see it fairing that much better. Other than that I've been playing the other 2 factions(nc/tr) and I perform pretty much the same infantry wise. Though I do have to say that the nc seriously lack teamwork and tactics, at least on the server I play on.

Mmmh, as much as I agree that NC are not UP, as a main NC player, you got it all wrong. We are very good at range and average CQC, with the AI MAX being the exception, ofc

How can I use the terrain to my advantage when NC's main high damage/low rof situation strength is combat at range.

And all capture points involve some element of CQC combat. Hell, at least 60% of infantry combat falls into CQC, largely due to the terrain.


If we were good at CQC, then the 'situation to your advantage' thing would work.

huh, my experience vs NC has been the opposite, with close range meaning that their high bullet damage means more, since fewer rounds miss due to recoil.

The thing that hurts us the most is the flinch mechanic.

uhm excuse me, have u ever played scattmax?

yup, it hurts us too, although less than you, since you have to deal with two higher ROF enemies, and we only have to deal with one. I wish that they would cut flinching by 50% or so

Yeah, I think you have it backwards. Our ranged performance is awesome, and we generally get worse the closer we get (although you can equip CQC sidegrades and be just as good as other factions, TR and VS defaults favor closer ranges a little more due to flinch + ROF + blahblah been discussed ten thousand times). You still compensate by using cover -- that's just how you play the game. NC weapons are laser accurate when sitting still, so it's better to do your movement between good firing positions than sprint around trying to bunnyhop and spam ADADAD. NC are penalized more for that kind of play, and I shudder to think it's why people find us UP.

Don't try to justify any balance thread with UES results, though -- the outcome was WAY more about the terrain and layout of facilities on Amerish than it was about the rather small differences between factions.

That said -- no, NC is not under-powered. I think our weapons are great, I LOVE having my bullets go exactly where I tell them to, and I'm pretty sick of the reputation our whole faction is getting from the constant whining of a loud minority.

pretty much the only reason they're going to tweak it. higby mentioned that they might make it based on damage, which might even everything out.

I can pull out precision burst firing with my NC weapons TR and VS can only dream about. They are screwed up by high recoil on first shot, killing their burst fire, and high horizontal imprecision ("high" relative to the range of the target, the horizontal imprecision becomes meaningless CQC). On top of it, NC CoF is 3 times better in ADS when not moving, allowing longer bursts.
VS have specifc advantage at medium range to be able to ADS on the move better than anyone else.
Generally speaking, the high RoF weapons are far easier to use (in average hands, veteran FPS players don't seem to see much difference) for reflex shooting. The discipline to keep your weapon on target during long firing burst tends to make NC weapon not the best

Its challenging for me to understand what nc players are talking about when they say things like flinch mechanics or smaller magazines. Everyone suffers from the flinch mechanic and in cqc the fact that less of your bullets needing to hit and kill makes all the difference.

Look, tr guns need more bullets to kill so they suffer worse from the flinch mechanic. Its like the prowler where our "advantage" only exists when no one is moving and nothing is messing with our aim.

The one thing I hate the most in this game is atacking entrenched nc... they're hell to dig out.

I should note that this isn't a complaint.... I love mid range engagements with nc as its pretty balanced and more up to skill. Of course I feel they start to get strong again at long range due to needing less bullets to hit.

I have a hacky max actually.

Next to useless out side of a biolab. At present the enviroments do not lend themselves to their use in most bases, Amp stations or tech plants.

CQC infantry play largely requires moving from under 10 meters to 20-50 meters, as you move from building to building, or from smaller more compact areas in building to more open ones.

Hackymaxes do not lend themselves to this, as they function poorly in the second category, and quick movement in general.

I play NC more than I play TR (though mostly TR lately, my NC is of a higher BR than both TR and VS), and I do not feel that the NC weapons are inferior. I actually tend to do better on my NC in infantry combat. The only thing I have a gripe with is the Reaver, I seem to do far better in the Mosquito. I'm not sure it's a balance issue or anything though, I'm a very bad pilot so I may just not be able to use the Reaver properly. I still get destroyed in Air combat, but The Mosquito is agile and fast enough to escape when I need to!

This.

Balance will swing back and forth throughout the next few months, that you can count on.

PS1 first lasher buff? Not good times for anyone outside of VS.

PS1 Pounder at release? GODJOEY had a lot of fun.

Surgile+Triple JH? I want this now.

I hope the JH buff coming up makes it OP for a few months so we can have our fun.

I have an upgraded SAW on an alt. When things go badly for you with the SAW then you notice flinch more I think and the weapon in general is odd in that sometimes you feel that it's awesome and other times you feel like it's terrible. Almost like it's related more to lag or framerate than any difference in stats or game mechanics. I have had times with TR when it seems like every NC with a gauss flinch locks me like a boss.

Tank balance is more of a noticeable weakness for the faction.

The thing with VS weapons (primarily) as opposed to NC weapons is that VS weapons are simply easier to use for the great mass of players, and NC weapons have a steep learning curve compared to the other two factions'.

In the hands of a skilled FPSer I have no doubt that NC weapons are lethal, but I can't hit the broad side of a Prowler with the things half the time and I've been playing since beta. This is because my aim is somewhat less than awesome (OK, it's somewhat less than mediocre) and I have the reflexes of a three-toed sloth on Valium. In the hands of a derp like me, an Orion is simply a Godsend compared to the Gauss SAW. Does it hit as hard? No. Does that matter when I can keep long bursts on target in a way that I simply can't do with a SAW or EM6? No. It's forgiving, it has manageable recoil, no drop, a comparatively tight COF, and a reasonable ROF.

When I get on my baby VS and get a few kills with an Orion that's completely bone stock except for a sight, and then jump back over onto my NC and struggle mightily with a SAW or EM6 that both have foregrip (2x in the case of the SAW) and compensator, or when I can put a nice long burst on target on my TR engy's Jaguar that I can't manage with my NC engy's Compact S? It's easy to feel underpowered even if the numbers say we aren't. After all, whatever killed you is automatically overpowered, isn't it?

And for the most part our weapons are inferior to the other two factions' when things get up close and personal. The two exceptions to that are our AI MAX, which is highly specialized for <15m combat and not much good outside of that; and the GD-7F, which is a type of carbine that every faction has one of, or two in the case of the TR (LC2/LC3) and VS (Serpent/VX6-7). None of the other NC weapons I've used except the Anchor struck me as very good in CQC.

I honestly don't know how you fix NC weapons to make them a bit more accessible without taking away what makes them unique. I don't think we NC are "underpowered" so much as we are a slightly higher difficulty setting. A Gauss SAW with a tightened COF really would be overpowered, and if you cut the damage to compensate, then it's basically a CARV with a blue paint job. I'd like to see the EM6 be our starter LMG instead of the SAW because it's a better all-rounder from my limited experience--the SAW is just poo until you cert it up. Maybe tiny tweaks--and I do mean tiny--could be done to the numbers on a few of our weapons. I'm not sure. But having weapons that are simply harder to put a killing amount of fire on target with is always going to feel "underpowered" even if we aren't, and that's where we are right now.

You do not see the imbalance ... With low accuracy weapons can be used only at a very close range.
You should try to use the AC-X11 at close range. Since its damage and accuracy, especially of the hip, it is not effective. I would suggest to increase its damage, which compensates for all the flaws. And it has many drawbacks.
As for other weapons, I advise beginners to immediately accumulate 130 certificates for GD-22S If to play HA, (100 +30 sight). That is when the game begins.
And I was very upset that a sniper weapon superior weapons NC in rate of fire.

I assume that you are complaining about starting out with a bolt action sniper?
I don't understand why... the general consensus seems to be that the NC starting sniper is the best starting sniper