Should friends lists be account-based or character-based?

Well... I am an easy going guy and I don't dislike anyone BUT you know that there are those 'friends' that are just to much! all the time. having the ability to keep some characters private so you can escape... if only for a little while

Would allowing you to sign onto any character in 'private' mode alleviate those concerns? Heck this might be nice to have whether you have character specific friends or not. If you want to hop on to check your mail without having to tell everyone that...

I prefer to add friends by character \o/

1. PRIVACY >> all other considerations.
2. With horizontal progression > vertical, it is unlikely people will have as many alts as in the usual EQ. Remember, no character is excluded any progression options by race/class. This means Alts will be for purposes other than for 2nd/3rd choice of classes etc. They are thus more lilely to reflect a diferent choice of player-style (evil vs good), (male vs female), ('pretty' vs 'ugly') or (open vs private).

So options :

• BLOCK : Blocks the (whole) Account. [This is primarily anti-griefing]

• FRIEND : only adds that character as (this character's) friend. When I am logged on as another character, I can (click in my interface to) find the other character's friend list though.

• GUILD : only en-Guilds that character. It does NOT add anyone to your friends list by default, but you can select guildies and put them into a 'guild friends' list which can then be found via the interface on another character under the above 'friends' list.

If 'friending' added a choice of 'character' or 'account', then this would put a (strong) pressure on players to click the 'account' option since the 'character option' would be seen as 'less friendly'. The 'trouble' of (manually) adding a friend's other Alts to your friends list is minor compared to the potential downside of either an option for or automatic addition to account-wide friending.

Frankly, I would happily spend the extra 1 minute it takes to add my friends' Alts to my 'friends' list if it ensured that nobody got pressured into a breach of their privacy and personal space to the detriment of their well-being. I know this is more difficult for the Facebook generation to understand, but privacy for the individual trumps all other considerations.

My main issue with adding my friends' alts isn't the time commitment; spending an extra minute or two per character is negligible. However, organizing your friend list becomes quite a bit more tedious when you can't just friend an account.

You make a point that players won't need to create alts for classes, but they may still want to. If I'm making a big bruiser-esque character, I may not want to run him as a mage, even if he can. The more role-play heavy you want to go, or the more strongly you feel about your character's personality, the more likely you'll want to make another character. On top of that, less vertical progression would also mean that you don't need to spend as much time getting an alt to 'playable,' whether with friends or with end game content. At worst, I'd say it's a wash.

While 'character friending' may seem less 'friendly' to some, I wouldn't expect someone I met in game to up and account-friend me.

Hey Evoras, would - on account creation and/or at a later time - being able to 'exempt' a character from your account-wide friend's list be a solution you would be okay with? (I'm making an alt to blow off steam, so I create it with the flag that means only people I friend from that character will see it, and they'll only see it as a stand-alone character. Alternatively you could make all of your characters that way, and it would be the same as character-only friending.)

Well, a simple solution that covers both needs could be :

• Facility in the 'friends' list to indicate a category (eg 'alts' or 'guildies' etc) or even multiple.
• Option in your preferences that says 'add my whole account, not specific characters' could be enabled if you wanted. This might then enable a 2nd option whern sombody friends you to add your whole account ...

BUT there is a differrence here pre- and post- Facebook that I was alluding to.

PRE-Facebook :

When YOU friended somebody, YOU added them to YOUR list. THEY didn't know you from adam. THEY might never know who you are! There was no "Joe is trying to Friend you, Do you accept yes/no".

This meant there was no question about 'account-wide' vs not. It was like it was YOUR notebook. YOU wrote stuff in there about what you did, people you met etc.

I do like the idea of a (set of ) personal journal(s) [1 per char linked to account], It would work like a standard journal, but it could be improved to show Friends just as part of your Journal showing your EQN story of events:

Links to their alts (if known), Date friended, who was in group etc

Space for you to write (personal) notes:

[has 3rd part of Epic, but still needs VOX], or

[invited me to join <UBER-Guild>] or

[has Master Alchmist alt, but prices a bit high} etc

Links to Diary-style points, maps etc

Links to related people - Guildies/(in-game)Guild Page, Wife/Husband (in-game)

The choice upon asking works for me.

I think adding a character like this is ideal:

- User makes request to add character.
- Prompt appears to character being requested (If online).
- Request shows in queue of character being requested (If offline at time of request).
- User has option to Allow friend request for either character or account, or Decline said request.
- Once accepted, original requesting character gets notification of approval and Friend List is updated to show said character or list of characters by account depending on choice selected in previous step.

Also should have added that having visibility options regardless of the above choices should still be available. Chat options like Invisible mode should be available to select at time of login so you can jump on any of your characters privately if you desire.

More important to me is the ignore list. Sure, it'd be nice to add all my friends' alts in one fell swoop, but what I'd really love to see is account-based ignore. If someone makes such a nuisance of themself that they earn a spot on my iggy list, I never want to hear from that person again. EVER. I also like the above suggestion for "invisible" mode. Sometimes, privacy is nice =)

Some really cool ideas Evoras. I like the idea of a block account. If a person is going to be enough of a problem that I don't want to deal with them, I don't want to deal with their alter ego either. I would very much support such a feature. I'd even go so far as to say that if they ever did try to contact you they were told they were on account block. Make it the blocking persons option of course.

A guild friends list is also a good idea. Many guilds have 100s of members and having the option to have a short list of friends inside the guild would be a welcome feature.

I would think the guild UI would have this in it as filtering type options, not really at the Friend List level, but I suppose there could be redundancy there that wouldn't necessarily be bad. Or you could simply have the ability to create groups in the Friend List and sort people into different groups as desired.

That would work too. The point is to have more options for organization. To allow you to have meaningful lists you could tie together to help you find people when you are looking for them. The fact that some may be redundant isn't as big a deal. From the devs POV, I'm sure that designing systems that are not redundant is very important as to not waist resources, but then that's why we love them for their unwavering dedication to bring to life this fantastic universe.

This is of the 'post-Facebook' generation of 'friending'.

1. Pre-Facebook 'friend' = a person whom one knows, likes and trusts
2. Post-Facebook 'friend' = acquaintance

Old-style MMOs used definition type-1, thus having a simple list of names you wish to track.

Most of the more modern MMOs therefore seem to prefer type-2. For this reason they are happy to have this bijective approach to friends lists. ie 'If I am on his list, he is on mine' or 'If he is my friend, then I am his'. This is fine and dandy *if* you are happy with definition type-2.

Unfortunately I, who use definition type-1, worry about being 'friended' after 5 minutes of grouping and zero words spoken; how can they know I am the great Mage I purport to be ? [Have even had unsolicited Guild offers!]

If the friend list means I have to get 'permission' to friend them, then I will have to create my own paper list of 'people I have grouped with who seem to be nice people and I should keep an eye out for later'. On this I will write notes about what zone, level and other pertinent details - perhaps if they offered to en-guild me etc. If after a few more meetings /groupings I think they *are* somebody I would want to hang out with (whether socially or for grouping etc) than putting them on my friends list would be the way forwards.

Off your point, but I've used mods to track contacts in the past, and I'm always wondering why MMORPGs don't provide this kind of data tracking by default.

When I group with people, I really want to be able to access:

• Who I've grouped with
• How much time I've spent grouped with them
• What zones/dungeons we've explored together
• What Quests we completed/made progress on together
• A personal rating/role system (5 star tank, 2 star dps, etc)
• Personal Notes

This kind of information should be part of friends lists or provided on a separate social database. I can't count the number of times - without a mod tracking the data or a notebook at my side - I get sent a friend request, a guild invite or a tell from someone and sit there going "oh rot, where do I know him from?"

Actually nowhere did I say that if you approved someone as a friend that it meant you also friended them. I said they have approval to add said character to THEIR list. You would still have to request approval to add them to yours, whether character or account level.

As for your "paper list" an in game journal where you could keep notes would easily allow for such "documentation" of things such as this as well as many other things in game that you may want to keep track of that aren't already kept in default UI windows.

I really like this idea. I have seen these add-ons in the past and use something similar in another MMO I'm in often. This kind of personal data tracking would be most welcome. Not sure if the EQN Dev team feel it's priority enough to put in, but I'd vote for it. Yes please!

Ah! Sorry ZenBlade - didn't quite see the metaphorical wood for the trees there. Agreed, that would be far preferable than a 2-way auto-friending.

It would also be nice to have areas for in-game documentation that can be incorporated, like the journal idea that both myself and JennBren (or was it Skyles?) suggested. They have the data, would ne nice to see a journal populated with this information and where I can add my own notes.

Hmm after writing my last post my train of thoughts got side-tracked.

The system known how many Orcs you have killed ... or assisted in killing ...
In a 'normal' MMORPG you get medals/title you can display so other people know ...

BUT this is EQ:NEXT ... so it occurs to me it may just be possible to implement what I call "faction+". Faction+ is my (original concept and mathematically modelled for a project I am creating) next-gen concept for factions in MMOs that is (only now) possible to design.

Concept :

Faction change, reputation, killer-status, mobs-killed, Server 1st's and other events are NOT automatically updated. They must be disseminated via other players or at 'hubs' and NOT by yourself (nobody likes a braggart).

Implementation :

• When events occur, this information (extra orcs killed) is kept in a 'cache' for your character - and every other character in your group also gets information for their actions. Group actions would be given to all members of the group equally.
• For this information to be distributed to the public, the players will need to go to a 'hub'. Until they do so, this information is NOT distributed to the world at large. These hubs would be Inns, Pubs, Merchant shops, Royal Courts, Churches, City-plazas or anywhere people congregate to gossip.
• Every 'tick' a packet of this information is then given out to any other players standing nearby or (more slowly) to any NPC of standing standing nearby.
• Some areas allow faster dissemination of information : Pubs for example. More people, more 'Gossip flagged NPCs' etc.
• You can increase this spread of information with, say, Bards, Dancers etc. Anything that increases socialising.

Notes :

YOU do not keep the information about how many orcs you killed, how you were the first to slay that dragon etc. This information is kept by the OTHER people standing nearby. When they meet other players, some of this information is slowly dribbled to them until eventually it is all handed out. When each of these others meet players they also transfer a dribble to each of those people.

NONE of this information is 'updated' until it is 'handed in' at a HUB, be it a Pub, Dance Hall, Fish-Market etc.

The speed that this information transfers from player -> HUB is dependent on the hub. Best would be a Saloon with lots of players, a few player Bards with instrument and several dancers. Alcohol could help too.

TLDR :

YOU do not spread your reputation. Only other people do that. YOU spread information about them! Once you have seen these events, go to a Bar and spread the information! Watch their factions shift as you do!

PS : There is scope here for groups going on 'secret' missions, where the group leader asks all his group to click their 'silence' buttons so nothing gets leaked back. Unfortunately, the Wizzy is AFK at that moment and forgets to turn his off. When they return to town to rest and resupply, unbeknownst to the rest of the group, the information is slowly leaking out of the Wizzy as he passes players, then the Merchant NPCs and finally, when he goes to the inn, the rest of the information comes gushing out as he listens to the Bard playing.
Now three days later the Tank heads over to Rivervale, only to find he is KOS!! Aarrrgh, *somebody* blabbed about him and his mates slaughtering Halflings all night for 'phat lewts' and toes for making 'shrinking potions'.

If the game is on STEAM, you can friend your friends on steam, and then have it on character by character basis in game.