Should all races have access to play all classes?

There is no basis for racial restrictions on classes. None. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

This is not EverQuest or EverQuest II. We know practically nothing about anything. Therefore, there is no RP or lore reasons why classes would be race restricted. You do not have the information to make such a claim. And what information has been revealed refutes such thought.

I really enjoy how Rift has it. In fact, I love how Rift has their races and classes. Its very convenient to have options on a single character to provide support on different classes for a variety of reasons.

-Personal Thought-
Ok so the Choices above are great but lets think out of the Box. What if ingame you had to learn how to become say a Guardian or Paladin oder a Warden etc. They could build in the optiion that say a rattonga (Hate these Damn RATS! - no wait Frogloks get me really going^^) Ok say Froglok wants to be a Paladin. Its something that just dont fit. But what if through a long line of learnng through a Quest Series or something he could learn to be Paladin.-END-

But if we all think about it in every fantasy film there are allways races that only seem to be able to do one thing. LOTR Wizards seem to be only human, elves would be scouts or healers, orks tanks and scouts (and really really dumb) so yeah restrictions should be given.

-FUN-
Humans - Can do everything
Elves - Healers, Scouts, Tanks
Dark Elves - Can do Everything
Orks/Orge - Tanks and Scouts
Thundercats - Tanks and Scouts
Frogloks - Shouldnt be able to do anything !
Rattongas - Scouts
Wood Elves - Scouts and Tanks
Faye - Should only be able to fly^^
-END-

Why would a Froglok paladin "not fit"? For that matter, why would any race "not fit" as a paladin? There is no basis for racial restrictions on classes in EQN. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

Previous EQ games are that way... >>> https://www.everquest.com/free

And wizards in LOTR are not human. Wizards, which are a "limited edition race" in and of themselves, were created by the gods to keep Sauron in check. They just look human. Don't let Stephen Colbert hear you say they are human. He will find you!!!

The more I think about it, the more I hate that you can be any class. I think there needs to be a limit. Whether it comes after so many combinations are made etc.

I would prefer the unlocks to be account based not character based.

I would like to see a small number of combinations be the limit. So if 3 classes can be combined to form one class, allow these to be changed three times. (Actually, I believe one change is too much- but that is my compromise)

This has many advantages to me. One it will prevent players from being able to be anything at any time (Really makes the game boring to me when every player can be a jack of all trades). It will also cause people to not necessarily rush leveling (skilling up in this case) on a character as they may not choose that class type... not to mention people will not be quick to pick a class role until they know more of even all potential classes.

I recall starting EQ.

My first character was an ogre warrior, I fell in the water got stuck could not find my way out and deleted him.
My second character was a wizard, I stopped playing at level 41.
My next character was a magician, I played this character for awhile through Planes of Power to lvl 65- my first character with an epic too.
My next character was an enchanter, I was determined I would be able to make money selling KEI- leveled to 65 and hated playing it.
(Had other alts to low levels but nothing major)
It took me 3 characters that I played for a very long time to ultimately realize I hated playing casters. I finally made a monk and that was my main until I quit (boxed a shaman 99% of the time with it by the end though- even for raids- I quit after DPoB), although I did get banned for 6 months (got my perma ban unbanned it just took forever to prove my innocence) so I did make a bard and SK as temporary mains but by then I could PL them 1 to 70 in 2 days.

Having to start over never ruined the game for me. I never got angry, upset, rage quit, etc. because I had to start over. In fact, each time was easier and easier because I had more knowledge of the game and the class roles. I never threw a hissy fit or a temper tantrum because a new class came out that I wanted to play and could not switch to that class and not have to make a new character, so I do not see why discovering a new class and having to remake a new character if that is the class you want to play is a big deal. Does not matter if you are casual or hardcore player- if you really want to play that class you will make it work.

I actually hate the idea of being able to respec. When I first encountered it I thought it was cool... I think I changed my spec once and realized I already know what I want to do so why would I change my spec.

I am capable of going on a character and knowing I want to tank, I want to heal, I want to be caster dps, I want to be melee dps, I want to do CC, etc.

I am also very content accepting that one character should not be able to do everything, that is why I am given more than one character slot.

Interesting perspective. Because you don't mind making a different character nobody should mind?

So if I don't mind elves being the only playable race there ceases to be a reason for anyone else to care if there is only one playable race? Sounds legit.

But what if I just played elves exclusively and other people could have the option to chose other races? Or what if you made a brand new character every time you wanted to try something new and other people, who hypothetically don't want to make a new character, just learned new skills on their current character? Some people might call me crazy for even thinking something so wild and insane, but I think it can work.

Challenge accepted.

1. Clearly I stated this as my opinion, I also pointed out a fact by stating, "In fact".
2. Using slippery slope reasoning is never a good way to prove your point.
3. My opinion is based on their response that they do not want people to learn a new class and not be able to use it. My response is for limits. Your response to me is about restrictions. Two completely different topics.
4. Your final remark is actually crazy and insane. Now to argue with you using a slippery slope argument. What if they just added the ability to change skills, races, classes and well anything where limits should be in place? Why do I have to learn 2HS if I learned 1HS? Why can I not just switch skills. Why can the skill for 1HS 1HB 2HB 2HS Piercing Archery etc all be one skill- Weapon skills. Restrictions take from the game, limits are necessary and add to the games perplexity.

Now, so far I have disliked about 95% of their responses on issues that actually matter to me. I still can not confirm my belief, but as of right now it is looking like they are making this game benefit players with only one character and for those who do not want any limits to the game. So far we will be able to join multiple guilds on each character- because nobody can be a raider and crafter outside of a crafting guild and a raiding guild. We will be able to switch classes so we do not feel like we wasted our time playing a class if we find one we like more. We do not have levels because we do not want people to not be able to play with new players- because there is no way making a new character is a viable option. We need to have fast travel so people can be with their friends very quickly, there is no reason for them to consider staying near each other if they are that desperate to play with their characters next to each other. We need to have guns because we can make it fit the lore- although it is not difficult to say the same thing about well any invention you can think of.

Now we just need a poll to change our names at will, change our race at will, gender at will, and attributes at will and we are there.

Sorry but I do not want the try to please all people game. Because it is impossible. So, I do not understand why they are even trying. They have already proven they are against anything that was Everquest already, they are just teasing us who enjoyed EQ for what it was by using the franchise's name.

Challenge accepted.

No challenge was given...

1. Clearly I stated this as my opinion, I also pointed out a fact by stating, "In fact".

I never implied it wasn't your opinion.

2. Using slippery slope reasoning is never a good way to prove your point.

I'm not proving any point.

3. My opinion is based on their response that they do not want people to learn a new class and not be able to use it. My response is for limits. Your response to me is about restrictions. Two completely different topics.

Two identical things. Limitations are restrictions. If you look up the definition of either the other word is listed as a definition.

4. Your final remark is actually crazy and insane. Now to argue with you using a slippery slope argument. What if they just added the ability to change skills, races, classes and well anything where limits should be in place?

I could personally care less. Everything you mentioned is already "changeable" beside race. If I don't want to change my race I won't. If some else wanted too, I have no issue with that person being able to change their race. Why should I care what someone else does with their avatar? As far as I know there is no major NPC social dynamic to race.

Why do I have to learn 2HS if I learned 1HS? Why can I not just switch skills.

What you say would also require a system in which you don't build up a skill, but simply get it handed to you at one time at its maximum proficiency. That would require redoing the entire progression system. In terms of class skills, you don't switch them as if they are mutually exclusive in terms of being learned. You just start learning a new one and pick which skill combos you'll use at any given time.

Why can the skill for 1HS 1HB 2HB 2HS Piercing Archery etc all be one skill- Weapon skills.

Again, I really wouldn't care if they did it that way or not. I doubt they would just for the sake of having a greater sense of progression. This also goes outside the realm of choice as this mechanic would be forced on everyone. And then there are basic logical problems with learning how to use a crossbow by swinging a mace.

Now, so far I have disliked about 95% of their responses on issues that actually matter to me. I still can not confirm my belief, but as of right now it is looking like they are making this game benefit players with only one character and for those who do not want any limits to the game. So far we will be able to join multiple guilds on each character- because nobody can be a raider and crafter outside of a crafting guild and a raiding guild. We will be able to switch classes so we do not feel like we wasted our time playing a class if we find one we like more. We do not have levels because we do not want people to not be able to play with new players- because there is no way making a new character is a viable option. We need to have fast travel so people can be with their friends very quickly, there is no reason for them to consider staying near each other if they are that desperate to play with their characters next to each other. We need to have guns because we can make it fit the lore- although it is not difficult to say the same thing about well any invention you can think of.

Now we just need a poll to change our names at will, change our race at will, gender at will, and attributes at will and we are there.

Perhaps Elder Scrolls Online will be more to your liking.... maybe not. They have a sort of classless system too. There are some games I think you might enjoy. EQ or EQ2. They are available right now.
Or you could simply not take advantage of all the options available and play as rigidly as you want. Put these restriction on yourself and be happy. But it seems that you're the type who needs to force their will on everyone else. Am I right?

Sorry but I do not want the try to please all people game. Because it is impossible.

It's kind of possible. I have seen nothing so far that would keep you from playing the game in the way you want. The problem is there are people like you who aren't happy unless other people aren't. That's not really an issue of game design, but rather your need to dictate how others enjoy (or don't enjoy) the game.

So, I do not understand why they are even trying. They have already proven they are against anything that was Everquest already, they are just teasing us who enjoyed EQ for what it was by using the franchise's name.

Maybe they aren't trying to please everyone. Maybe you simply don't fall into the category of people they trying to please. Food for thought.

Yeah, you should definitely check out EQ or EQ2. Maybe SWTOR?

EQ2 is garbage. SWTOR is the worst game I have ever played.

EQ1 is the only good suggestion. Now if only EQN would be what it was rumored to be 8-10 years ago... the game that recreates the feel of EQ1 would actually be that, we would be talking.

Also, while limit and restrict can be used to describe the same thing, they are different. The word restrict has a more powerful meaning than limit.

You stated having one race of elves only. That restricts you from playing anything but elves there is no way around it. Where as having only one character that is an elf would only limit you to.. 1 elf character. You are not restricted to only playing an elf though.

Every game that ever existed that allowed any class to be anything failed miserably come end game. In fact, it's hard to make it to the end game due to the lack of immersion and feeling of being different from everyone else. In the end, everyone will switch to the same cookie cutter BS, and that is not an immersive world. You need individuals to feel individual ...mistakes and all. We don't need our hands held ...allow us to explore, and learn ...and to live with the decisions that we make, good or bad, these are the things that make us unique in game. If you balance things properly, there won't be issues with god classes and what not. If I want to duel wield swords for example, and I get really great at it, but I get to end game and find out the flavor of the month is using a wizard with a 2 handed staff ....that's a balance issue, and I shouldn't just be able to switch to whatever everyone else is doing to "compete".

I want to be what I want to be without the worry about a game that is not properly balanced. Let us be unique individuals, your free-for-all plans are going to ruin a very important relationship the player has with his/her character.

Also, while restrict and limit can be used to describe the same thing, they are different. The word limit has a more powerful meaning than restrict.

You stated having one race of elves only. That limits you from playing anything but elves there is no way around it. Where as having only one character that is an elf would only restrict you to.. 1 elf character. You are not limited to only playing an elf though

Notice how it still says the same thing?

It's like you're having a stroke when you typed that. "Drenched and soaked can be used to describe the same thing, but they different. See, if you fell in a swimming pool you'd be soaked, but if you fell in a river you'd be drenched. See? Big difference. Drenched is more powerful than soaked."

Neither word is "more powerful" than the other.

class / lore restrict is better

See that is the thing, what kills most mmos for me isn't that I get angry at switching classes. I get bored. Back when getting to 20 took me about a several days in WoW I played the same quests over and over. I got bored, especially when I then switched to a lower level character. Games like Rift alleviated the boredom from repeating quests (at most you would only have to level a character 4 times, though I only did it twice) by simply having more options on one character.

Games like Firefall makes it so you can play any of the frames (classes) on one character, which means if I want to play a sniper one day and maybe an engineer the next I can. I don't have to switch accounts, lose progress, lose items, or anything. The main reason I hate having to switch all the time is simply because I hate feeling like i'm losing out or repeating content JUST to get to where I was with another character.

In short, it's boring to do the same content/quests/anything over and over. I hate alts, they kill mmos for me.

Um, first off how many games let you be 'anything' with one character? I can only think of three, arguably four. However, the caveat is that even if you can be anything, all four punish you for trying to be everything at once. As for flavor of the month complaints, that NEVER has been an issue in any game ever right?

What are the lore justifications for class restrictions in EQN?

I believe there are class restrictions based on your actions in-game. As an example, the "Order of Celibate Monks" won't train you in Celibate-Fu if your character is the town *****. Is that the type of class/lore restrictions you are referring too?

race class combos should be in tiers. some that making a lot of sense would be in the easy tier something like a an ogre mage would be in the hard tier.

Really? My biggest objection to RIFT...and I played it for 6 months or more....was that there was virtually nothing distinguishing one race from another. In fact, RIFT was the biggest game to convince me how AWFUL it is for a game to have only one starting area for all characters. See other thread. Some limitations apply. Ask an adult before posting.

Unfortunately this question is awkwardly phrased. Or oversimplified.

I do believe race should affect the availability of some classes. And if they're talking about non-adventuring skills as classes, that even becomes more true. For example, "Artisan Weaponsmith" should be available to Dwarves, Elves, Dark Elves, maybe a couple other races. OR to those who can manage to improve their standing with those training those skills as to convince them to teach them. I.E., that skill should not be available to an Ogre unless they can convince (improve standing/rep/faction call it what you will) with the Dwarf, Elf, or Dark Elf trainer to it's maximum.

Additionally, your actions should also alienate certain trainers, therefore making you ineligible to learn different skills.

Also, a point here. Many people seem to equate "You can learn every skill" to mean every character WILL learn every skill. I, for one, believe (and hope) that they mean "You can learn every skill...or become good at a smaller number." Just because you CAN multi-class doesn't mean everyone will WANT to. In AD&D, you could always create a fighter-magic user, but many many people still opted for one or the other.