No RT Poll Feb. 5 ~ Changes Coming

A response poll in game? Awesome! I'm kidding

The round table discussions have been going awesome in my opinion. I wonder what the new format will be? I really hope that the new format will still let us be as interactive with the team as the RT has been.

I can't imagine anything better than the current format unless it involves more dev responses frequently.

Round table asks questions, lets people vote, and also lets them go into detail about what they think on the matter.

I hope the new format is a bit more in-depth. Omeed does a good job as moderator, but there's only ever one guest, so there is little debate. It would be cool to have 3-4 people total and actually debate the design decisions being made. It'd be great if there was actual disagreement. I know you guys are all gamers over there at SOE with various backgrounds, playstyles and preferences. I know you're not monolithic in your opinions on what makes a good game. It'd be fun to see you guys argue, politely, once in a while.

A better worded poll and poll options would be nice though.

More dev responses would be nice addition as well. However, what I really want to see is a response is the direction of this game from being revolutionizing to being mostly about the evolution of the same exact features as in other modern MMOs. I find it extremely unfortunate, to put it mildly that I got the impression after watching SoE Live that Next would dare to challenge modern MMO features but yet the Round Table Responses seem to show a completely different direction. First Next would be a game SWG veterans and even EQ veterans would like and now John Smedley is saying that an unnamed game would be something for SWG veterans. It sounds like Next's direction has been changed in favor of a new game, but I could be wrong. The unnamed game seems to be an FPS, also not sure how that is what an SWG veteran would want, even if it does include a deep crafting system.

I would also like to see the developers show more of the game and tell us what they are currently working on. The latter is something I also expected after the announcement of the round table. I really appreciated the concept art of the Iksar and I would love to see more of that in the future.

I have to say that with Landmark the developers are doing a good job explaining us what is going on. I really appreciate that.

The current Roundtable format was a great idea. The questions often didn't give enough options to make many readers want to vote. As their opinions were not covered. Probably leading to a misrepresentation of what the respondents actually wanted.

I truly hope they can use the information to build the game we all want.

I think it needs changes though. As the numbers following and responding to the polls are not very large. In fact the numbers responding seem shockingly low. Especially if you consider many of those numbers are multiple posts or people debating their point of view. And it seems the number of responders is getting smaller each time. Especially for an MMO carrying the EQ brand. Or a game that is supposed to be as groundbreaking as EQN or EQNL are supposed to be.

Whatever changes they make, I hope it gets more of the potential players answering and giving their opinions.

So it will be interesting to see what they do to get more people interested in the game. That way the polls that will shape the game, will be answered by the MMO community. The game as presented when introduced has some great ideas. And the numbers who watched it showed great interest from the MMO community. But for some reason it appears a large number of those people aren't answering the Roundtable polls.

Which causes a problem for the makers of EQN, and EQNL how do you make that next generation MMO, that the players want. If the masses aren't really participating in the roundtable polls?

I fear most of the MMO community has a very vague idea of what EQN will be. I still don't know what it will be. I will tell you that the polls and the opinions on them, make it seem EQN will probably not be that new MMO that I will play for the next 4 years or so. In fact, I even stopped play EQ in preparation for EQN. As apparently there will be very little EQ in EQN. And there was so much confusion around EQNL that they had to make a video trying to clear it up. So my guess is the format change will be something to help the MMO community know that they have the power to vote on what EQN will be, by participating in the polls.

Of course a series of videos showing what EQN is and what it is not. Might help get some of the fence sitters to vote. And they might want to ensure the MMO fans that their vote counts. And that game is still in development and will be shaped by what the fans vote for. So if they vote for it, just about anything about the game could change.

Not about polls, but the RT forum:
It might be more productive if the threads would be in a tree structure, so that the more unusual ideas could branch out, instead of drowning in the over and over again upcoming standard pros and cons.

I'd like to see them comment more on what is actually being talked about. Their answers often seem vague, pre-decided, unambitious and rarely actually bring up stuff that are getting the huge debates on the forums. My 2 cents.

A lot of the topics aren't worth discussing for weeks on end. The number of responders also gets lower because a lot of the people who used to respond moved to the Landmark forum and respond their instead. I think a part of the problem is the way the forums are organized by SoE. I think it would be better to have one forum with subforums for every single SoE MMO.

Also, the people responding are usually the same people because not many people are that interested in debating. It is a lot like how the amount of solo players in MMOs is growing because people don't want to get outside of their comfort zone.

I don't think it will change much. I think voting on a poll during development is mostly for the hardcore MMO gamer (hardcore as in investing lots of time on talking about it). This game is still so far away enough gamers don't even want to bother until much, much more about the game is actually set in stone.

The forum used to be threaded but they decided it wasn't that beneficial to the discussion. I also believe it probably made it a lot harder for SoE to read all of the posts.

I completely agree. Once again the developers didn't even address the throwback server idea. Aazimar's post on the first page received 85 likes which is a lot on this forum and yet it wasn't even mentioned. It as if they specifically avoid everything posted by the more old school gaming crowd. Maybe Next won't be anything the old school gaming crowd want and that is why we are being ignored. Fine, but then tell us that we won't get the game we would like, so any old school gamer can decide for him/herself to just stop visiting this forum. I am only here because of what was said during SoE Live, if that event hadn't happened and only the RTRs included information about the game I wouldn't even be here. I am not interested in another modern MMO, with which I mean all modern MMO features which I believe have reduced the strengths of the MMO genre or completely removed it all together.

I'm beginning to think that they're desperately afraid to even mention any "old school" ideas, because they're afraid they'll be labeled as "not being progressive" or "non-innovative" by association. As if EVERY SINGLE IDEA in the game MUST be new new new new. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I just want that transparency that smedley talked about. Sometimes I feel the round table responses are really vague and disingenuous as to the reasoning behind their decisions. If they are doing things in a way I don't like, but they are up front with their reasoning, you can't argue that, it is what it is, but when they give us reasons that don't seem true, as if they are avoiding the real reasons, it bugs me and makes me a lot more skeptical about the game.

I am rather old school myself when it comes to RPG's starting with great titles like FF1 and Dragon Warrior, EQ1 and such. I have played mostly all of the MMO's available on the market, and they are all the same, just like many of the devs have mentioned and like Dave G. said we have been playing the same D&D game sense UO or even before that with the very first 8 bit RPG's. These new games or "newer" games sense World of Warcraft have all followed the same kind of, how do you say "catering to the masses".

I understand this is a business, and I understand business need to make profits for investors, or to even progress as a company. So these newer games have all gave us the same old theme park.

Through the years people don't like to "grind" levels:

Well either do I, what made EQ1 so "not grindy feeling" was that it took so long that every low level dungeon mattered, it wasn't the level it was the loot that defined you, levels came naturally if you were chasing the carrot on a stick. Now level progresson in MMO's takes days not months catering to this crowd wasting any and all development time on content not "end game"; because people will find the least risk for biggest reward and repeat that until it is no longer effective, then rage on the forums about everything else being to grindy creating a standard from the least risk/reward and demand all content be set to that.

So what has been done to extend these games and keep you subbing? :

Your level "grind" takes days or weeks so what do we as players end up with? A handful of end game content with a currency system. You farm X currency by repeating Y content until you can purchase Z item and so on. This is to fill that play time gap that was shortened by reducing the level curve to two weeks. So now we went from 5 months to max level then raids to 2 weeks max level then grind X daily quest 500 times doing the same thing which end up being the same amount of time it would have taken you in eq1 "back in hell level days" to maximize your items and gear. I think EQ next will change this by not having a level system and only having loot progression which forces the player to go into that hard dungeon and try to attain those items instead of thinking " why don't I do X over and over for more reward and less risk and just skip the content that took so long to develop because I will "out level" this content anyway and have X,Y and Z instanced dungeon to run 500 times for better stuff and I am so selfish that I don't care if my dungeon finder party that are all on different servers have to carry me to complete it because I wont see them again anyway, so Fem carry me. Ohh, and I left out forum rage after that there is nothing to do but grind X,Y, and Z because the player skipped A-W.

So what now?:

The new MMO gaming generation don't want an EQ game they want god of war multiplayer where they are the gods of pvp and dps and any other class or player that can defeat them is overpowered and needs adjustment. These are not "team" games these are online single player games where no one socializes because there is no need to, everything is handed to the player, groups, loots, currency, gear. No effort is needed anymore and you don't even have to be polite because "who cares" you wont see this dungeon finder group again there is no "server reputation" anymore. Even the gap between gear that would require 24 players to attain is placed on par with things you can get running X daily quest 500 times and just being a carried bad player. There is no risk/reward anymore because that is labeled "eleteist" and the common argument is " well how is me getting the same items as you got from X raid by doing ez-mode dungeon finder group 500 times hurting you?" The answer is ...it doesn't, but it hurts the longevity of the game and the feeling of accomplishment. Why should I even TRY to spend that kind of aggravation and effort to run a raid event when I can derp, and mash buttons through the easy content and eventually aquire the same thing?

Summary:

Do I want EQ Next to be EQ1 reimagined...no that won't work with todays gamers and SoE would just lose a large investment in development. What I am expecting EQ Next to do is:

No static spawns, so no speed runs, no cookie cutter to this X way " WoW style players just anger me with the lack of creativity and mechanic negoation. The "new" mentality is not "how can we deal with this mechanic" it is "what did the developers not think of so we can just skip this mechanic", and if we cant skip it and create a tank and spank we will create 1000 page threads "its to hard" or "why do I have to accomplish this to get X loot, I should be able to get X loot by grinding X ez-content 500 times and just skip this"

EQNext and theme park dungeon finder:

Theme park as in you wait in line in the queue and then you ride the ride, get your reward, then wait in line again. No static spawns, so the typical theme park strat is flawed. I am hoping for "non instanced" dungeon content. Running to a scary place and then camping the entrance for a group then proceeding to try and find your party was INTENSE and added a level of immersion rivaled "to this very day", but newer players would cry " I shouldn't have to run there, or look for a party in chat, I want to be an *** and I can't do that if I can't randomly queue with x number of players from other servers because players on this server will blacklist me.

Just the though of a mob AI, and not being able to tell your friend go to X loc talk to Z npc go kill Y mob in location bla bla bla.... you guys have seen the write ups, this while handy, doesn't make for much immersion. NOT being able to follow cookie cutter strats is a TREMENDOUS step in killing the "WOW" mentality.....and I like it, basically all of these players will be lost and actually have to "play" the game and not skip 90% grind to max level then grind currency and say ......there is nothing to do that is "viable"... I hate that word, every time I read that in any discussion in ANY MMO I replace this in my mind with EASY. Everything should be as "viable" EASY as this, or this isn't 'viable" easy.

I am tired of these new games and their "money model" be just like WoW, look WoW has X million players, yep and 90% of these players that I have had a chance to play with in other MMO games " never played WoW" are plain bad, rude, and want everything handed to them and work for nothing, but......... have an knack for finding game exploits calling them creative ways to handle mechanics and "not exploitive if its in game" mentality, as well as being able to figure out how to kill the least amount of trash, skip the largest amount of content, and then call you bad for doing it the right way and being dumfounded that you don't want to do it the cookie cutter way and mark you "eliteist"

Make that +86, for Aazimar's post on page 1.

https://forums.station.sony.com/everquestnext/index.php?posts/55212/

Moved

Can not wait to see the changes i voted on every subject in round table <(' . '<).off topic here for a sec I hope they dont make EQNext like MoP i LOVE a challenge i like taking the time to get gear to master my class i dont want to just run out spam 1,2,3,i love trying to solo elites,and i hope they dont make the game about flavor of the month thats a game killer i dont like what all the complainers did to the other mmo's and i really hope EQNext dont take the same road as the others you can make $$ without making the game into complainers paradise...a MMO should not be easy if some one wants to beat a game that fast and dont wanna play with others maybe they should play a 1player game.just a thought i know it wont be liked sorry for using MoP but its a great game to show that went down complainers road and got destroyed.

I think a fair number of the Round Table participants have "lost the faith" in EQN already after seeing the apparent direction the game is going. No, none of us truly know what the game will be like and things can change by the time beta launches. The concern is many players were looking for something Everquest and instead are feeling something a bit more (insert any other MMO made in the last 8 years).

I am following 28 forum board members and I haven't seen 25 of them post in months! Those 25 were old schoolers, roleplayers, EQ Fanboys and immersion game junkies. They were hoping EQN would be something desired by many for years now - a challenging, immersive game! The Modern Concepts (gun) RT response lost half of them. The Contested Content RT response drove a few others away. Every time the RT response leans to easy, mass market game appeal, more and more players get disillusioned with the direction the game is going and only check in every once in a while.

Xurtan, Tiwi, Gossamer, Amris, Aegir, Eldane, Orion (to name a few) - all fading away from what they were hoping would be something truly different. I'm not giving up hope just yet, but I don't blame those that rarely show their faces around these parts anymore.

Hey Aazi! You're right as usual, I just plain gave up on the developers. These forums seemed like a great way to offer up our input on the game and it felt amazing to give that input....and then they answered the questions... and they spun our input to say exactly what they had planned to do with the game before they ever asked us questions. Then they continued that trend. I tried to stay faithful, until the gun question was answered. After that debacle I gave up. I check in every once in a while but... /sigh.

It's good to know a member of the old vanguard (hah!) is still keeping the fight going. Good luck, brother! (You're gonna need it. )

You guys aren't the only ones. I'm less of a old school hardcore person and more of a I want a really immersive sandbox person. But the two go hand in hand as a lot of the convenience features, hand holding, low death penalties, structured pvp, and so on, etc are detrimental to both. With the initial announcement and all the stuff they were saying I was pretty excited for this but with each new round table response that becomes less the case. It just really seems like they're gonna go down the route of GW2 after all and change all the wrong things leaving us with a rather mediocre experience.

I feel like I need to get off topic hear and just point out that, that's how you know you are socially awkward. There is no reason you should like that on the internet. But who am I to judge.

Anyways,

I feel like there is too much community interacting with way too much time before the game actually comes out. This leaves me scared on how the game will turn out or maybe I'm seeing that the game is already what I'm not looking for. Which is not the case for me I take it by stride and work around stuff and or make it work.

This is a good eye opener for me, I always preached for better communication from developers to their fans, but now I'm seeing it might not be such a good thing to do. I'm obviously not talking about complete silence either.