Hi Im an fairly new to MT T7 raiding. I come from Venekor pvp server so we are a little behind in raiding compared to most servrs. But I was just curious what you guys use in your groups? We only have the queynos classes so I use Mystic, Warden/Fury, Templar, Dirge, Swashi, and myself. Is that about right or there other classes that might be more useful?
You're going to want the warden over the Fury. If there's no warden you might want to try to throw in a pali or conjurer until you get some gear for the extra mit. When that happens you may have a little less hate, and your raid may have to slow the DPS a little but survivability is the key until you get equipped.
A warden is always preferable to a Fury in the MT group. Group should be Guardian/Warden/Shaman/Cleric/Bard/X. Our last spot used to go to an SK for the Mitigation increase on the MT, but now it either goes to a Coercer (for power) or an Assassin (for Shadows) depending.
[p]One tank, 2 healers, hate gain (swashy or assassin), one mana pump and a conjuror for mit buffs, resists and magic leash.[/p]
If the raid is substantially over powered with dps then take out the conjy and put in another hate transfer.
Most of the time, the ideal group is: Guardian Templar(stoneskin, buff more hp than inquis since inquis use STA and templar buff straight hp) Defiler(more buffs than mystic, bolster is raid wide) Swashbuckler/Assassin (hate) Dirge (hate/stoneskin/power regen) Coercer (hate/power regen) This should vary though, like if you're doing Crab a wardens cold ward is uber. If the raid doesnt do much DPS you could lose the coercer and put in a mit buffer (pally/SK)
Just added a few questions to what you wrote Duave its maybe a litle of topic but oh well, would still give me a nice hint or two and for eveyone else interested. Would say you have the right classes OT , a conj or pally could work as an replacement maybe if one your heals gone missing, but sounds like a pretty much solid MT group.
I'm gonna check but I'm pretty sure a conjies group mit buffs are much higher than a pally/sk. The benefit would be amends but that couold be cast from another group.
Depending on overall raid makeup you will want different configs Guard / Zerker, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Coercer (thoughtsnap, 43% hate gain, dps buff, mana), and Swash/Dirge/Assassin Assassin / Swash when there is poor agrro control in rest of raid, dirge for tough named for extra proc rate, stoneskin, and general utility buffs. Trash clearing (please don't hate on me) Put Paladin and SK in MT group dropping the Guard / Zerker and the Dirge/Swash/Assassin have the SK mit buff the paladin and have the paladin amends the SK; this allows the raid force to absolutely unload on trash mobs, then go back to Guard / Zerker for named [preferably a guard] and Swash/Dirge/Assassin.
Jixx wrote: Well this is just wrong. Mitigation is pretty much useless anyway. But here is the math: Paladin mit buff is ~400 single target OR ~700 non-fighters group. Conjuror is a little bit above 400 group. The conjuror also buffs power and resists. I think power is about 600 and cold/heat are 1000. These are in addition to the geotic seal buff that is 400 mit.. but is actually 400 everything (include resists). Paladin can buff a lot more. Besides healing that stacks with other healers, a Paladin can buff your unmitigated block% with his avoidance substantially. Other buffs include : +34 all skills group (!), group melee proc (x2 vs. undead), group 60 str buff, group 80 wisdom buff, amends to 1 healer, and ability to tank in an emergency. Best MT group for author/PVP: Guardian Mystic Warden Templar Dirge Swashbuckler/Paladin/Illusionist
[p]In terms of survivability in a good only raid, you could put in a brawler for the avoid buff. I've generally seen better results in terms of survivability from having a brawler's avoid vs. having some mit and avoid from a crusader. Brawlers also have some decent melee buffs, as I recall. Without access to any of the evil classes (particularly a coercer) I'd say those are your main options. [/p][p]Also, if you have a decently geared pally that you can keep alive, the suggestion of having them tank the trash and the guard tank the names isn't bad at all. Particularly if you (the guard) are set up for pure survivability and don't have really (really) nice gear, amends will produce much better hate. This is nice because on hard named fights, you have a defensively set up guard tanking, and on the trash DPS fests you get the better hate to speed things up, which plays to everyone's strengths.[/p][p]Snorm -- 70 Guard[/p]
Timmeh@Nektulos wrote: Thanks for all the responses guys. I have actually been using the set up listed right above and that seems to be workin alright!
Timmeh@Nektulos wrote: ... this is just wrong? Mitigation isn't useless. Unless of course you have 10k. But you don't have 10k, and neither does the OP. Conj can give just as much mit as crusaders if their aa's are in the right place. And they give extra elemental resists which would be nice if you didn't have a warden. Pali is still the best choice given the above statement Especially if the Pali has his aa's in the block line. This is assuming that survivability is the big issue.. if it's not then the swashy is head and shoulders above others.
[p]While mitigation is not useless, putting a conj in the MT group for mitigation is rather silly if a crusader of either flavour is on hand.[/p][p]A conj will buff the MT for 326 mitigation and to each resist (more to heat and cold), will give the tank 522 power, and will give him a small melee heat DoT. A crusader will buff it for 425, gives the tank a second chance to avoid being hit on more than half the hits they take, will buff the MTs str and wis for 54, and give them a divine melee proc. Paladins can also heal the MT better from the MT group than they can from any other group.[/p][p]In order for a conj to put their AAs in the right place to be able to buff a tank enough for them to be worth the spot in the MT group, they are missing out on doing what they are there for, namely DPS. in order for a paladin in particular to buff a MT, which they will always do better than a conj, they are putting their AAs exactly where they should be to perform their main function on a raid, and would likely have the same AAS (KoS ones, if not EoF) if they were in the MT group or not.[/p][p]The only time I can think of a conj being more useful than a paladin in the MT group is if there is a mob that dispells all fighter class buffs, but such a mob does not exist yet. There is noting that a conj can buff the MT for that a paladin can not do better, at least not when broken down to survivability and hate generation, which is all a tank needs on a raid. Therefore, a conj has no place in the MT group if a crusader is around.[/p]
Yes it is. Mitigation > 60% is just about useless and actually HARMFUL. Why? Because compared to HP and avoidance increases putting your efforts to mitigation hurts survivability. We're not in KOS anymore. Diminishing curves of effectiveness.
Haha Timmeh.. I'm not gonna argue with you. You keep thinking that. And I clearly said that a paladin is better then a conj.. if you would have read the post you would see he is on a pvp server, and shockingly paladins aren't HUGE on a pvp server. He can't have SK's in his raid, so it is a very real possibility that he gets into a situation without a crusader available. In that situation, i was stating that a conj would be helpful to survivability - which is a true statement. Meh, Mwink take what you want from these boards - people here are often very misinformed. Try it out yourself imo. I'm done trying to help.
Firstly, note that I'm from a PVP server. Your RL should be switching groups around as per the fights If you're struggling with survivability or a tough name then a defensive group of: MT, Mystic, Templar, Warden, Dirge, Pally (PoA and avoidance buff) Long fight - double power regen MT, Mystic, Templar, Warden, Dirge, Illy Extra hate - named fight MT, Mystic, Templar, Warden, Dirge, Swash Extra hate - trash fight MT, Mystic, Templar, Dirge, Swash, Illy (double attack AA)
That's fine. Think what you want. But don't misinform others. If anyone is confused as to what stats matter most to top tanks, simply look at what the top tanks are equipping. The vast majority are concentrating on > 10K hp, block/defense/parry, resists, and hate procs. Not many care about mitigation anymore. Don't believe me? Look them up. Check out the tanks for the top guilds.
I hate to argue on the guardian boards.. I also hate to argue with an assassin on the guardian boards about the nuances of tanking.
