Would you accept being a mid-level dps if you still had proper value in a raid?

Please understand I agree Conjurors are in a great position this expansion. What about the next one? If the Conjuror class was going to be changed to have more utility, which do you think would be cool or that you would like?
I have heard Devs talk first-hand that Conjurors are meant to be Utility and not DPS. ET is a great step in this direction, but if we were not such a high dps right now, not only would new people not be picking up the class, but there would be so many of us in raids.
So instead of just nerfing the class and once again pushing us to the depths of despair I think you should follow true to your world and make us a utility.

So this is my question. Would you accept being a mid-level dps if you still had proper value in a raid? Also what would it take for you to feel valued in a raid.
I think we would need some thing the defines our class that makes us stand out besides what we already have.
I know we have a pet, but all that means is that we get a few damage quirks and some other cool abilities.
I am thinking of things like:
A ward we can place on anybody or a damage absorption. For example I ca place it on the MT or myself, or my pet for soloing. I think a good range would be 2-4k. Call it "Elemental Wall"
Or some thing else that we can place on a Wizzy and for a Necro a Warlock, that makes their dps the highest in the game no question like it should be.
My suggestions are based on utility not dps. Devs has been stating that we are NOT a dps class and rather utility. I am just providing EXAMPLES and suggest you all come up with your own if you had to be a Utility class and mid-level dps.
-Riggly

Riggly wrote:

Look, have you done any research into the state of the "Utility" classes lately? It's pretty bad. There simply isn't enough meaningful "Utility" out there already. AA's given to all the classes have largely made the "Utility" provided by the so-called "Utility" classes mostly superfluous. These classes are having a hard time right now.
We don't need to wade into that pool. We need to stay right where we are. Mostly DPS, with a touch of utility.

Banditman wrote:

Do you really play a Conjuror? I mean, really?
We have a clickable, group Stoneskin available. It is called Stoneskins, it is granted by spending 20 points in the Foundation tree.
Do some research on the class you claim to play. Then do some research on what you 'want' to make us.
We are far better off right where we are.

The only two possible nerfs I see in the pipeline for Conjurors are:

• Elemental Blast getting toned down
• Shared Stats, which would be awesome in the long run and solve a lot of itemization problems for us, would have the immediate result of lowering our pet's Potency by a substantial amount.

As of right now, though, Conjurors are in the best shape they've been in since launch.

i agree with xalmat however EB will not be toned down it is fine right now .. we are well below wizazrd warlock assa dps... for the first time we are DPS wise were we belong ... there is no need to change this at all !

conjuror are "ok" now besides some smaller issues with itemization no need to change that or alter our role right now

That stoneskin is a joke and provides nearly no raid utility. Xalmat I agree with you we are in in a good position, but not since launch. Conjurors in KoS were insane DPS when geared.

I'm afraid I have to concur with everyone else. Conjurors are currently in one of the best positions they've been in since the fireseed line was groupwide through KoS days. To answer your question, personally, I would not accept having lower dps even if balanced out with more utility. I am happy with both currently. My perspective is as one who has been a casual player, a high end raider, back to casual player, to quitting the game, to coming back and raiding casually, quitting again, casually playing again, and now starting to raid higher end again. It's been a long arduous journey playing this class and I'm finally happy with it for the first time in years.
Also, just to comment on some of your suggestions:
We already have a class defining quality. Elemental pets. Especially true at the moment, a conjuror is defined by the power of his pet.
We do already get a group stoneskin from our foundations line in the Conjy aa tree. It's not great, but it does have some minor useage.
We already used to have a ward that affected other players. It was vehement skin. It was changed to pet only. I feel like if we got a regenerating reward like you suggested, in combination with all the pet utility we already have, it would be very over powered. Playing devil's advocate for it, it would need to not be pet useable to keep in balance, but I really don't feel like it's an ability we need.
DPS buffing: Ele Tox already helps pad parses a little bit for dps classes in group. A change suggested elsewhere in the forums I'm behind would be allowing fire seed to proc off spell casts. It's at least in the same vain as your suggestion and wouldn't seem too out of character for the class right now.

What utility do you want?
Dependancy on utility classes is a bad thing. If guilds are forced into having anything of a particular class type on roster, somthings wrong.
I dispise the 3 mages fight for its 3 fighter type requirement.
I agree with Xalmat in his diagnosis of nerf.
However theres no requirement for both of the indicated changes. If we got shared pet stats, the pets potency would fall by 30-150% (big scope but its the reality of it). Basically the "further progressed" you are with pet gear the more the change would hurt. But as a result in that potency drop, so too would Elemental blast damage drop considerably. In fact it would actually be more "normalised". The "problem" (i dont think there is one) is caused by the way that potency, ability mod, and crit bonus are applying to the spell. All of these things are stacked onto pet items in MUCH higher qunatities than what is available to the summoner.
Addressing the shared stats discussion would avoid any nerf required to any pet abilities.
That said..... I believe that the summoner should just simply manage the pet and the pet should be the damage machine. If it were me, id be granting summoners more and more pet buffs, temp buffs, and basically tools and utility to make their pet MORE usefull, and idling/cutting back damage abilities of the summoner themself. Pets make us unique. No true summoner wants to be a weak wizard with a permanent dumbfire.

Gormak wrote:

I agree with you completely. So what you are saying is that you think that the Conjuror should be like they are now and focus most of their efforts on boosting the dps of the pet. So you are feeling that the pet is the future and that you want the ability to make your pet unique. What changes or abilities to the pet do you think would be cool or different then anything that has been created? What else do you think could be added to expand the Conjuror pet.?

I've always said to myself that the Conjuror's weapon IS their pet.
One thing that I would love to see us get is the ability to summon armor, weapons and charms to give to our pets to equip just like the Mages can do in EverQuest 1. Years ago when I played that game I thought that was one of the coolest things they could do.

Aaen@Crushbone wrote:

This game is not EverQuest. It's EverQuest II.

Xalmat wrote:

going to agree with Xalmat again here.
The problems that arise from gearing a 2nd entity are just too numerous, and you may as well stick with the pet focus effects system we have now. The end result is the same. We seek gear for the benefit of our pet. Then imagine the pain of gearing yourself and the pet?? Imagine Sony's pain in having to address issues like "My pets chest slot has vanished"?? IMO it has potential to be more problematic that the current item system. Spells that summon pet gear are even worse, because they are very very limited in scale..... so then we end up back at RoK scenarios where our pets couldnt scale their damage to the same levels that pure casters did.
The shared stats arguement is more controlled My stats = pet stats (with likely modifiers applied for different pet types)
For the moment, im satisfied with the current system. However id be open to a shared stats system provided there was a conversion/turnin system in place to prevent heaps of gear becoming instantly redundant. Somethins would also need to be done to address the massive drop in effectiveness of top end conjuror parses, this would be quite significant from where we are now.

We know you two are all about the shared stat method. That's great, but let some other thoughts and ideas in. I think there is the possibilities out there and I want to see what people come up with.

Riggly wrote:

im not about shared stats actually.
Id accept it if it were what we were given. But i prefer the way things are now gear wise. Im a realist though and cant see how the current pet gearing model can be sustained moving farward into future expansions. There'll be nerfs afoot if it continues i would expect.

Riggly wrote:

There is hundreds apon hundreds of posts giving out ideas.
Maybe search should be used.
The conj class is at a good balance of utility and dps...start tipping the scales in favor of one and youy will have problems that other classes are seeing right now.

Not a summoner here but I'll throw out a few things:
In the current state of this game everybody wants to be high DPS. I ran SR the other day with a highly geared Coercer. On the Dragon named guy the Coercer beat my legendary geard wizard 2:1 on DPS but the healer was OOP at the end of the fight and the Berserker had to heal himself. We won with the tank almost dead after his death save went off. The Coercer ran off and never clicked a button to put any power back for the group.
Nobody wants to be Utility. Bards spec for DPS, Enchanters spec for DPS. Healers spec for DPS and tell people to use potions. Tanks spec for DPS and claim the healers are poor healers.
This whole game centers around DPS and no class is going to be happy with their class being focused on utility. Even if your a freaking utility class by defination.
I formed a group the other day and asked for DPS and a bard in 80-89 channel. I got a dirge and they complained in a friendly way through the whole zone about dirges being DPS so I shouldn't seperate them out.

Riggly wrote:

I will be quiet blunt here and say this post is more stupid than than soloing vox

Playing a conjuror atm is great fun. Timing abilities plays a big role and the better we support our pet the more dps we are able to squeeze out of our class.
If they made us a utility class, they'd need to give us good utilities that are actually fun.
As I see it, utilities are fun if they require using some brain. A good example for a fun utility is victorious concerto. Toggle-on-and-forget-Buffs are boring utilities, helpful but boring.
There are 6 scout classes, 2 are considered utility. Why should there be 3 or 4 utility oriented mage classes?
Honestly, isn't the dependency on chanters and dirges already big enough? Either they give us important utility, in which case the dependency on utility classes grows. Or they give us utility nobody really cares much about, in which case raids might be better off with the usual dps classes.
Personally, I would like to see conjis as pet oriented DPS classes with all advantages and disadvantages pet oriented classes have or as somebody else called it " Mostly DPS, with a touch of utility" . I would love to have more abilities to support my pet. I love temp buffs for my pet. If I wanted to be a utility class, I would roll a bard or chanter.