Why does 'soothe servant' give me SO MUCH aggro???

Gargamol here, currently LVL 22 Necromancer Sage from Antonia Bayle.

I'm liking Necro so far (didn't do much EQ1)... I do have some issues being 'accepted' into groups at times, but as time passes I find I see the same people more often who kindly 'vouch' for me and get me in even if the group would rather not pick up Necro.

I don't have much problem with soloing stuff... I'm still trying to figure out the sensativities of the color cons VERSUS the ^ andd ^^ and ^^^. (ie does each ^ just about equal a lvl... as in a white ^^ is as hard as a yellow, but only the xp of a white?)

Anyway, the BIGGEST problem I have right now is that even when I am not attacking a mob I often get aggro anyway...from healing my pet!

Whats up with that.. I would think healing 'group members' would not give any aggro, or very little at least. The 'breaking point' should be if I have to cast it too much, I run out of power, and it eventually dies. But I find, if my pet it getting beat pretty good, and I only cast heal.. by around the 3rd heal the mob will switch aggro to me.

Is this a bug, or is it just out of wack? I was using adept1 Terrelian Recurit, and adept1 grim spellbinder and it happens with both of them at times.

The only other thing I hate is that 'immobilize' and 'arcane bindings' seem to work about 5% of the time, and more often than not just get me aggro and force me to run (thank god petrify works all the time, even though for very short periods on hard mobs)

Look at it from the Mob's point of view; If you were killing something and someone healed it, wouldn't you be mad?

Agro management is part of the game. I usually cast Petrify, then heal. That way the Mob doesn't come after me and the Pet can get agro back before the Mob can move.

Healing definitely generates agro. If you heal the pet alot during the fight or start healing too early in the fight the mob will turn its attention to you.

Healing the pet is no different really than attacking with a spell since the end result of both is to increase the amount of damage the mob takes.

If it gets to the point that you can only win the fight by spam healing the pet then you are probably fighting a tough mob that you may need to change your strategy a bit on. It takes some practice on tough mobs to manage agro with the pet but you can do it.

I haven't felt it has been a problem thus far. I'm still capable of doing orange con solo mobs at level 25 just fine without the mob attacknig me and I dont have uber equipment of any sort or use any special tricks.

Yes immobilize is unreliable at best. It isn't something that is easy to rely on for croud control. I mostly use it to root a mob I need to run from heh. I haven't used petrify when running from a mob yet though I may have to try that =)
Message Edited by Kryll on 12-16-2004 01:37 PM

Well that sucks.... I was hoping it wasn't the way it was supposed to be.

As a mage I'm super weak, and not meant to tank. I assume if tanks were only as effective as pets, then this would be a problem for groups with clerics?


And yes, this isn't an "every time" thing.. usually orange or yellow cons.. or white ^ or white ^^... but I just figured that 'healing' was like 'sneaking' in that it is passive or at the very least more passive than the direct dammage spells my pet is doing in the face of the mob. If the aggro generated from 3 heals is GREATER than the aggro generated from my pet attacking for 15s... I just think something is wrong.

And yeah, they can be "too tough" that I shouldn't be fighting them at the level... I just thought the logic in that case, should be that I need to heal so much that I run out of power when the mob still has 80% health, my pet dies, and/or I run... not that I heal my pet twice and then run for my life as the mob turns on me without even touching it once (and being a mile away behind my pet)

I don't know... I still think there should be something... a TAUNT or something that you can tell the pet to do, or that it does randomly or something.



P.S. You actually use Immobilize? I bought an adept1 to make it not suck... but it didn't work. Its got that fast cast time for running but like I said, I've only had it work like 3 times EVER (about the same rate as 'arcane bindings') which usually puts the nice 'chain' graphic on the mob as he 'draggs' it around like it was nothing. But yeah.. if you've not been using Petrify, you just found a very useful technique for solo escapes.




Message Edited by Gargamel on 12-16-2004 10:49 AM

Petrify is deffinatly a good spell all around, I hardly use my Imobilize anymore. I also found out that Petrify works good to help out your Cleric. If your tank is going down quickly, you can cast Petrify and it gives the Cleric more time to get your tank healed back up. I also use it when a mob comes rushing me, I found that I can cast petrify, back off, and normally my pet takes back up the agro.

Pets in groups, I was playing last night and we had a very good group working Part 4 of someones Armour Quest, my pet was in there casting away with the Tanks taking on a red mob, but my pet was going down in health slowly, I am assuming the mob was using a Area Attack and my pet was to close, so I decided to start casting a new pet, as my cast ended my pet still had a little health, but he dissappered as my new pet appeared. I then sent him in to continue fighting, instant full health and power pet. Give it a try sometime.

Yeah, I'm just a little bummed my pet DOESN'T / CAN'T "taunt" (or that healing my pet generates aggro so large, comparitively to the aggro generated by 'normal' non-taunt attacks by my pet)

Same thing...



Message Edited by Gargamel on 12-16-2004 04:12 PM

That was the first thing I looked for when I got my first pet, WHERE IS THE TAUNT LOL. The Taunt was nice in EQ1, you want the mob to chase you so your pet could backstab, then you tunred off your taunt, you wanted the pet to keep the mob off of you, you turned taunt on. When I saw no taunt I just said "Time to change tactics". Live and learn, or Die and Learn, all good to me.

Well it seems that the Lvl 20 GS is known to be a weak 'taunter', and more of a "caster pet".

The lvl 24 UA supposidly is a "tank pet", has way more HP, and holds aggro MUCH better.

Gonn'a find out soon...

I still use my recruit when it warrents, I will just keep ticking away at my lvl to get to my 24 pet. I just wish I could find a Adept Recruit, just to try it out and get a different look. Can't find one on Toxx.

Adept 3 Tellurian Recruit is a great tank. Can tank yellows easy and usually only needs 1 heal per battle to stay alive. If you find a piece of Coral or Silver it would be a good investment to find someone to make you one.

I agree Gargamel, Soothe servent and your next spell mend bones is quite the pain the the buttox, mend bones heals over time and when im usualy soloing in rivervale I get aggro about the 2nd tick of the heal, even if I cast it before the fight the mob knows its being healed over time, kinda lame IMO, and soothe servent is pointless because it almost always steals aggro, wish sony could lower the aggro of this because it is a pain as you said for mages who arent mean tto be hit for 300( its what im being hit for now) and stunned constantly , theres also these instances in zek where you have to solo like 3 mobs, Meanwhile a same lvl guardian can solo a double up arrow mob and still have half of his hp left.

I vote engulfing darkness line of spells for us, if we could just have a snare, one snare... that would last more then 25 seconds, I would be pleased. I just want a snare, and maybe FD =D, oh wait, and dmf, and and a WORKING LIFETAP, because our lvl 30 lifetap doesnt work its broken, very disapointing, but what can ya do? If there was a necromancer picketing strike, i would be there!

until then, im here =D

I dunno. The adept3 crawler must have super taunt or something because I kill orange mobs while chain dotting and healing the pet when needed. I get aggro maybe 1 out of 20 mobs. Even then I just use petrify and when it wears off the crawler has aggro again. I just dont see an aggro issue when using that pet.
Message Edited by Rhugan on 12-17-2004 09:05 AM

I am not sure how people are having a hard time with their pets keeping agro while using our heal lines. Perhaps it is a learned thing over time; the ability to manage/balance agro, but I look at my spell lines like this: heals are like nukes...our heal over time is like a DoT. SO if I go into a battle, spamming my nukes, DoTs, heals then yes I will steal agro. Have patience. Don't try to take the MoB down in 20 seconds. The main thing is that your pet has the ability to survive and so do you. Every time you over agro you are wasting time reseting your camp up.

Now it does get easier. Undying Adherent keeps agro better and I HIGHLY***** suggest investing in a Jasper before as soon as you hit level 24. Adept 3 Undying Adherent is simply a death machine. It hold agro so well I almost feel as if I can unleash Innoruuk's fury on every MoB without worries (that knock down really gets em focused on your pet).


Criimson Nightsky
Lavastorm

Well I'm not arguing that we shoudn't have to balance aggro...

I'm just saying that the amount of aggro "Soothe Servent" generates seems out of whack compared to the amount of aggro an Adept1 pet can generate (be it because of **** pets, the lack of 'taunt', dance bug, etc).

Seems if you get Adept3, you have less worries, but it that what it comes down to? Necro's with Adept2 or lower are ineffective at soloing single orange/yellow mobs?

If I'm not supposed to be able to take them out, the logic should be that I have to use too many heals (and run out of power) or my heals can't keep up with dammage, that my pet dies... and then I get aggro... not "heal 2 times in the first 15s, then get aggro and run"

As it stands now, I'm guess the rule is Adept3 for solo necros.

I had no problems controlling agro with the App2 version of the spell which I had used until level 31, yes our tradeskilllers level slower. I merely mentioned the Adept 3, in order to share that it is a worthwhile expense. I do not see it as generating too much agro. n However, I have played pet classes in online games for almost 7 years now though, so perhaps it is merely experience with the use of the class type that gives me an advantage.



And as to the ^'s you see: they are, from my experience thus far, more like multipliers. In math the ^ is a symbol of a power. For instance 2^2, would be 4 or 2 to the 2nd power. And from what I have seen this is exactly the case in EQ2, except instead of powers it is more like a multiplier. A ^ MoB hits about 2x as hard and has 2x the HPs. Therefore a ^^^ MoB is most likely a <con> x4. IE if a normal, say, white con MoB would hit you for 30 this one will most likely be hitting you for 120 on average (not including special attacks which can kill quickly when multiplied) and have 4x the HPs. I tend to avoid these MoBs for the most part, unless I am trying to test something or out to have a little crazy excitement.

Criimson Nightsky
Lavastorm

Out of curiosity why are you soloing orange/yellow MoBs?
I ask because, even though it is easily done, although often time consuming, it is not efficient at all. Try to think of it this way. The devs did a good job in EQ2 balancing MoB levels vs character levels in order to allow the players to understand with *ease* whether they could fight something. White con is equal to your level. It is what should give you a perfect balance of skills. Fighting MoBs a level to 4 levels above you is not intended. it is possible and I do it, I must admit :manwink:, but it not what was intended of the <con> system.
An example of what I mean:
If PvP were a part of this game and you, the diabolic necro of FP, came across a druid (ewwww, EQ1 feelings never die) of Qeynos trying to spread their sunshine rays in the gloomy forest of Nektulos. Would you expect the battle to be in your favor if they conned orange to you? Or on the other hand would you expect it to be overly difficult if they conned green to you? No because it is a blanced game that the devs are trying to create. the MoBs in EQ2 (as opposed to EQ1) are worked, designed, and implimented on the same balance system.
And if it is exp that you are after when fighting orange/yellow MoBs then I am sorry to be the one breaking the news to you, but you are wasting your time. From my experience anything that cons higher then your level (while solo) is giving you a minimal, if any, experience gain over a white con and the time it takes to kill them and recover from the battle is an immense waste of time.

Criimson Nightsky
Lavastorm

Mostly for quests.. or just for 'fun'... after an hr of two of the same "agitate, send pet, static pulse, BE, dust, dust, BE, agitate" on blue con mobs, I'll pick up a 'hard' one just for fun to break up the monotany.
Also I've found that I can take a single orange con much easier than 2 or 3 blue cons due the tank-less nature of a solo necro with a taunt-less pet. (I guess that is if I'm using GS).
A 12s fight for .3% for a 30s fight for .9% and less bordom... its all good (downtime with adept1 'shift essense' is minimal even if I'm drained)
And I want to make clear, I'm fine with just saying "those are too hard for you" or "if you want to take yellow/orange cons OF COURSE you need a adept3 (yellow/orange) version of the spell... or whatever. Its just that in that case I don't think we should be getting aggro until our pet dies because of lack of power/heal (if all we are doing is 'healing' the pet)

As far as the ^ and ^^ go.. .you're probably about right. I had to kill 'war witches' for one of my armor quests in Fallen Gate. It was either 2 person group of green ^ or ONE green ^^.
I tried to solo the green^^ with my adept1 Grim Spellbinder and I get WHOOPED. My pet get hammered like 3 or 4 times and is under 50% health. I cast heal, and the a second one when it is available again, and THAT is when the mob chases me. So the Green^^ is beating both Me (lvl 22) and my pet (Lvl21 adept1 Grim Spellbinder).
I get that I'm "supposed" to be fighting things at my level. I'm lvl 22, I should fight 22's. Its just a question of how much more XP does a white ^ give you compared to a plain yellow... and then how the battle cycle time of each compares.
In a "solo" situation, I think the math might work out that is advantagous to to go one way over the other, and in other 'group' cases the usual "many blues" rule applies.



Message Edited by Gargamel on 12-17-2004 01:35 PM

Funny enough..wait until you get your level 35 single target DoT. LOL talk about having to readjust your timing to control agro. This spell will definayely throw everything out of whack. It has the same cast time as BE, but does so much damage (even at app2) so quickly that the first few times you use it expect to get agro.

Great DoT though. Finally a DoT I am glad I got.

Criimson Nightsky
Lavastorm

As for ^ equaling 1 level higher or ^^ meaning 2 levels higher, that is not the case. As I said it is a multiplier in my opinion. So a level 20 ^ is more like a 30+. They are not meant to be solod under any circumstances. It can be done, but in such cases luck plays a large part in it as does relative level.

I understand where you are coming from when speaking of trying them for quests. The Nektropos key requires killing a Dragoon Lieutenant for a part of it. And I had 2 options for this quest; the ^^ single MoB or two ^ MoBs. I chose the two ^ MoBs (both conned blue). What I did to take these is targeted one and went a good bit out of casting range. Sent my UA on the first MoB, knowing the second one would beeline for me. As soon as I hit pet attack, I changed my target to the other and spammed my Immobilize key. I then moved within casting range of both MoBs. i recast my root every time it popped up, not wanting to risk fizzles or the root breaking (especially since the pets in this game are extrememly protective and if my pet came to my defense keeping root up on the second would be more difficult (again any time a damage is done to a rooted MoB it has a chance to break root)). I would then *casually* cast DoTs, heals on the first MoB/pet all the while keeping root on. This may or may not drain your power pool to such an extent that the second can be taken immediately following the death of the first MoB. No worries though, since this is where the Necro truly shines...power regen. If I was OOP I merely tapped the pet while keeping the second MoB rooted. When I was ready I recast root..stepped back a ways and sent pet in. Chances are (90% at least) that the roots have the MoB pretty mad. I therefore, either kept rooting or agro kited the MoB around while the pet beat on it. I did not cast a DoT/Nuke during this time because that will merely prolong my agro. This was extremely time consuming and tricky at times, but so fun to do. The versatility of the necro to work in various situations is truly what makes us the best class there is to play. Coming up with ways to use our spells to overcome challenges makes the class a perfect challenge and fun experience.

Criimson nightsky
Lavastorm

I've always thought of it like this:

Each /\ represents another of that mob.
So if I am fighting a /\ /\ White mob, it is like fighting 3 of them at once.
This seems to work out well, as I seem to take the same damage / risks on /\/\ green mobs as I do a group of 3 green mobs. Instead of 3 hitting me for 10 - 50, I've got one hitting me for 30 - 150, and it seems to have the HP of 3 mobs. Of course, with some named and special mobs, this is hard to guage because there may not be groups of 2 - 3 of them to compare to, they are unique in the first place.

I believe that a similer yet different function exists for the V V mobs.
I am not sure how that works, perhaps a 20% - 25% debuff per V, not sure yet.

IDK, just how I personally estimate things, and feels acurate enough for me.