Why did we remove magic wands from the game?

Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Bozidar, May 13, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Rashaak Guest

    Oakleafe wrote:
    um...she posted a brand new thread about all weapons...requesting feedback about weapons. The other thread was to discuss other ideas aside from weapon delay, damage rating, damage, etc...
    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=413300
    Also... like it or not....RP is never much of a factor when it comes to weapons, armor, etc. But so far...from what is being said about these wands and casting while moving....it was probably good they got removed.
  2. ARCHIVED-Bozidar Guest

    Lasai wrote:
    I think they'd be a little less of a waste on PvE if they had a reasonable casting time and kept the casting time/damage ratio reasonable.
    the whole ranged wand idea isn't bad though
    Casters just need something to shoot someone in the back with as they run from us like the panzies that they are!!!
    Btw, i had a great idea (imo) for the wands if you want to keep damage types generic.
    Make a root wand, a mez wand, a stun wand, a nuke wand, and a stifle wand. ;) Do that, and i bet even on PvE servers the woodworker's doors start getting beat on.
  3. ARCHIVED-Bozidar Guest

    Rashaak wrote:
    you seem to be very strongly against the wands casting on the run. it's not like the caster is trying to use one of their own spells, the magic itself is all in the wand. I thought for a long time that hex dolls should also be castable while moving.
    If someone can run and shoot a bow as accurately as they can while standing still, why can't someone use a magic word and point a wand while moving?
  4. ARCHIVED-Lodrelhai Guest

    Terron@Splitpaw wrote:
    The imbue for ranged weapons went along with the idea of a ranged-type wand - ie, one that uses some form of ammo and has auto-attack. Since it would then be a ranged weapon usable by priests and mages, proc'ing off both spells and ranged attacks would make them more useful to those classes. If one is out of power, the ranged auto-attack will still be going off, and will still have a chance to proc the imbue.

    As an additional benefit, this new ranged imbue could also be put onto bows, sheathes, etc so that classes which use them can have a proc off their ranged weapons as well.
  5. ARCHIVED-Oakleafe Guest

    Lodrelhai wrote:
    Mages and priests do not have a ranged attack, presumably because they can attack from range with many of their spells anyway. So, for a ranged imbue to be any good they would have to re-write code for the priest/mage classes, which I don't see happening in a hurry.

    The point was that the wands of old were used, it just wasn't stated as such prior to the decision to scrap them (as the discussion was lost in another (non-woodworker) article). They were used in PvE and clearly very favoured in PvP. They gave the user a chance to use them when they chose (very useful), rather than be a random proc (potentially useful, maybe).

    Now some people seem to like the new wands and some people want the chance to use the old wands. Seeing as the decision to scrap the favoured old-style wands was obviously made without enough input it seems to me sensible to plan to bring them back (and I'd suggest bringing them all back, as just bringing one back would allow players to mitigate against just that one and thus make it impotent).

    One of the things that made this game fun to play was the fact that there was variety and therefore choice. If we continue to have the game trimmed of variety and dumbed down then the fun is also trimmed. That may be fine for those that rush to the end game and just raid a few zones for the rest of their EQ2-life, but for those that try and play the whole game, explore everywhere they can and quest all the quests they can find the variety is essential.

    I apologise if bringing back these missing wands is significant effort, but it is for the benefit of the game so I believe it to be effort worth making.
  6. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    Oakleafe wrote:
    Well said.
  7. ARCHIVED-McDade Guest

    Rashaak wrote:
    "Probably good they got removed"?
    Maybe you are thinking that it enabled a caster to cast all spells while moving? This was not the case. You could only cast the clicky spell on the wand itself, which is WAY less damage than autoattack from a bow or even a throwing weapon. Not to mention that all the classes who can use bows and throwing weapons can also use most if not all of their combat arts while moving if they can get into range ....some also have ranged combat arts that can be cast on the run.
    Granted, the wands were pretty weak, but they were the only damage casters/healers could do on the move. "RP" has nothing to do with it. It is a necessity in PvP to have one of these wands.....KILL OR BE KILLED ya know.
    If you have never played on a PvP server, just imagine for a second if whenever mobs got into red health they would try to sprint away from you......you root .....snare ....they cure ....now they are immune to root and snare and sprinting away ....you have to stand perfectly still for 3 seconds to cast a nuke on them ....target out of range.....he regens up ....sneaks up on you in stealth when you are engaged with a mob and one shots you with an autoattack from his bow ....if that doesn't work and you get the upper hand again ....he just runs away again and comes back maybe with a friend this time. NOW IF YOU HAD A CLICKY WAND you could have sprinted right after him and finished him off with a couple wand blasts. Now reverse roles for a second and imagine you try to run when your health gets in the red .....He follows and plants a couple arrows in your back WHILE RUNNING......next he is spamming /laugh while he humps your corpse until you revive.
    Is this scenario fair? HE77 NO! it's not fair. Give casters/healers back our dang wands PLEASE!! for PvP!!!!
  8. ARCHIVED-Lasai Guest

    McDade wrote:
    And Bluntly, I will say, I don't care. For two years in SWG I dealt with Jedi as a Pure Ranged Master Carbineer with some BH lines. Far worse than your scout issues.
    We were told to adapt and overcome, and Ill say the same to you, deal with it and move on.
    Those wands are worthless anywhere but PvP, and I don't want the useless things in my recipe books unless I can export my sales listings to Nagefen. Crafters don't need useless items whose worth is limited to a couple of special ruleset servers taking up space.
    Lobby for including them on the PvP token vendors, but don't inflict them on us. Take the argument up with the PvP dev, those vendors exist only on PvP servers, and that is exactly where you can make your case. We don't need them, haven't needed them, and I for one am VERY happy they are gone. Tradeskillers have to have products viable on all servers.
    Also Oakleafe, What color is the sky on your server? If I recall, you also claimed to sell more WS made adorns than any other type too, and now you claim to sell these wands. Must be an interesting place. Also, your claim to choice of wand types due to "Roleplay" is probably more a function of what animation happens during that long screenshot friendly cast, and not real utility. That isn't reason enough to bring em back. Now, if you can't sell the new t8 wands with 50int, 50wis, a decent delay, improved DR and an choice of imbues, get back to us. Thats why they got changed, and I imagine you might sell more than one. You defeat your own argument, OMG bring them back, OMG Ive only sold one T8 weapon. Yeah, sounds like they were a hit.
  9. ARCHIVED-Gorkk00 Guest

    Lasai wrote:
    You know, they could simply get them back in game and well, buff them at the same time to make them actually useful besides PVP as well? (and if that would make them OPed in PVP, they can simply reduce the damage they do in PVP compared to the buffed PVE version so that the buffed version is no more efficient than the old version was in PVP).

    And by the way, why is that bad for you to have recipes for things you don't sell? Do all your products sell very well? If so, woodworkers are clearly unbalanced compared to any other tradeskill class, as all have a good bunch of products that never sell you know? And even then, if SoE was to put them back, don't you realize it would mean more recipes in your book, hence, more first pristines? Hum? And you're not forced to make them if they don't sell.

    You obviously have been bitter when said to adapt or die on SWG, so why do you now do the same to others, when it would change absolutely nothing for you? Trying to get some kind of vengeance?

    (and no, like I said above, I'm no PVPer, and honestly I could care less about PVP in general ;))
  10. ARCHIVED-McDade Guest

    Lasai wrote:
  11. ARCHIVED-McDade Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
  12. ARCHIVED-Lasai Guest

    McDade wrote:

    Well, "Tiger", your little heart wrenching essay on "unfairness" is part and parcel of the server YOU chose to play on, and no amount of items will ever stop the lolling, the ganking, the teabagging and corpse humping so dear to the hearts of the infantile PKer that type of game attracts.

    PvP isn't, and will never be, "Fair". Deal with that. Half of pvp success is conniving to have an "unfair" advantage. Wahhh.

    The wards were changed and improved to reflect the use of the huge majority of the Player base. IF you feel that the PvP caster NEEDS a kiting option, take it up with the PvP people. They can decide that, at this point it's a "balance" issue and this issue needs to go in the PvP forum with the other 30 flavors of Baskin Robbins "OMG Unfair" posts. There are already mechanics to provide PvP players with items unique to that ruleset.

    Don't expect the Tradeskill Developer to give you the crutch you seem to feel you need to PvP. If the balance is that glaring, frankly, talk to the people that can fix that.
  13. ARCHIVED-Gorkk00 Guest

    Lasai wrote:
    Funny thing is you didn't answer my question: how does adding back the wands does affect you negatively, other than having additional recipes in your book that you won't make because it doesn't sell?

    Having them back is all beneficial for you and fellow woodworkers: more first pristine experience, hence easier leveling. Or shall we understand from your total opposition to the reintroduction of those that woodworkers are unbalanced and level too fast and too easily at the moment, and thus should not get additional recipes?

    You honestly didn't give any one single sensitive or valid reason for not putting back one or more wands in the game, which means that all you're doing right now is trolling and trying to serve an obscure agenda (because there's no apparent benefit for you as to not have them back quite the opposite).
    People who want the wands or at least some of them back have given valid and sensitive reason to support their demand. You on the other hand, haven't. So now, please provide at least one valid and sensitive reason for not having them back, or stop trolling there, thank you.
  14. ARCHIVED-Lasai Guest

    Nifnif@Lucan DLere wrote:
  15. ARCHIVED-Domino Guest

    I've already replied to this topic back on page 2. Derailing the discussion into bickering and veiled insults is only going to make me grumpy and go do something else instead! Grumpy halflings are not good, so let's keep it constructive and civil, or indeed just drop it entirely since there really isn't much more to be added at this point. :D
  16. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    The clicky wands provide some toons with an advantage in PvP.
    New toons for the same classes will not have an option to get the same advantage once the stock of old wands is used up.
    So eventually you will get toons of the same class and level where one has an advantage the other can not.
    That would lead to unhappy customers.

    Are there any alternatives in the game?
    E.g. can Brock's Thermal Shocker be used on the move?

    If not and assuming you don't want to upset people by taking they toys they already have away, then something would need to replace the old wands.

    That need not be the return of the old wand imbue(s), though that would be the simplest solution.
    If that was done then putting the recipes in a separate recipe book (or books) would have advantages:
    • Those woodworkers who didn't like the recipes could just not buy them.
    • Being separate from normal recipes would mean that when a new tier was added there would be no necessity to add a new recipe of this type for the new tier.
  17. ARCHIVED-Oakleafe Guest

    McDade wrote:
    Your recall is faulty, I've never sold an adornment in my life and have never claimed to (I didn't even claim that I sold wands).

    I won't bother answering the rest of your post as Domino doesn't want to hear any more from us.
  18. ARCHIVED-RanmaBoyType Guest

    i would think it was just an oversight to an ability that was in the game since the get go. Anyone who calls these wands overpowered obviously has never used them.

    Quite frankly i forgot of their existence on PVE all together, but have recently been shown of their usefulness on my new PVP inquisitor I made, however logging into my woodworker last night just to find low and behold i can't make these.
    I understand why Domino changed these, and perhaps it was just an overlook for the PVP community, but i still have yet to see in 4 pages of discussion a single logical reason why it would hurt to bring back this recipe back to wood workers. No one says you have to make them if you are that much against them.
  19. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    My level 15 defiler was finding a cold imbued bone wand useful yesterday - it is a bigger nuke than any of her spells so is good for pulling when the casting time is not relevant (and as a weapon she can swap it out during combat).
    That was on a PvE server.
  20. ARCHIVED-PsychoKitty Guest

    I will tread carefully so as not to upset a possibly cranky Domino even further

    I also was not aware of the wand change until it came into play on the live servers (various rl dramas). Although my priest is now my main, my original char was a wizard and I was instantly shocked by this change. I have since run out and bought a hot and cold imbued lvl 72 wand from the broker for when (and if) I ever get that high with her!

    I know that their usefulness has been in question for some time ... I would have liked to see a possible revamp on the cards ... but removing them from the game altogether seems incredibly drastic!

    Man, would I love to see those broken bookshelves removed from the game entirely until they are fixed *cough cough.

    When I first saw the change, I even wondered if there was any other motivation behind this? Did you have a wand backfire on you one too many times Dom? I think, if anything, there was just too much choice available when it came to the wands and they were long overdue for a revamp (as all the other items were until now).

    There were 7 imbues to chose from, woodworker items in my experience never sell well. They were doomed from the start. It was nice to have those extra recipes to imbue though

    So ... I will say I was very suprised to see them insta-removed. I can live with it, no big drama. But I DO object to these new items that are 1h staves and yet called wands. What are you thinking girl?! Ahem I mean, please reconsider.

    Very happy with all the other GU changes though, btw

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