Why did we remove magic wands from the game?

Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Bozidar, May 13, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Lilflier Guest

    ughh... this change is absolutely awful for player vs player. Those clicky wands are essential to most priests and mages. They don't have any spells they can cast on the run. Even at level 80 i still have an imbued wand in my bag just for that purpose. Yes the cast time is long, but it's better than nothing. Now i've got nothing if i want to level a new priest up. Please, please, please put the old wand recipes back in the game. If the pve servers don't want them... fine.. they don't have to make them, but those wands are essential tools in the pvp game.... Not to mention that i do use them even in pve encounters some times. Please give those recipes back.
  2. ARCHIVED-TniEradani Guest

    Ohiv wrote:
  3. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    Lilflier wrote:
    They would have to be new recipes, using the new basic wands.
    Would one such recipe be enough?
    Or do you need set of one for each damage type?
    Or would a new set be more useful, maybe varying the effects as are done for the adornment tempers: Runic - big magic DD; Molten - DD + DOT; Glacial DD + Snare.
  4. ARCHIVED-Domino Guest

    I did specifically ask in this forum if anybody used the magic wands as they are, and nobody seemed to think they were at all useful, so that's why they were changed.

    If they are indeed that vital to PvP then we could look at adding one of them back at some point. Is there any one damage type that's more useful than any other? I'm not sure when I'll be able to make time to look at this, but in the mean time all your existing wands aren't going anywhere so you're not being deprived of using the old weapons.
  5. ARCHIVED-Rashaak Guest

    Lilflier wrote:
    they cast on the run? That don't make much sense....
  6. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    An alternative which was mentioned in reply to you earlier question was charged clickable wands, like the ones available from the Bloodlines vendors.
    In the long run craftable versions of those might be better.
    As a consumable they would be better for Woodworkers
    Being limited by class (mage only) and charge would justify making them a bit more effective (faster casting/more powerful effect).
  7. ARCHIVED-Bozidar Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    Sorry Domino. I don't come here a lot, but mostly what i got from the updates coming was that you were revamping the weapons, not removing existing recipies. I didn't read carefully or often enough to pick that up, and other pvpers above have said the same.

    Thanks for taking a look into this. If you want to add in just one type, i guess magic is the most generic. in pvp folks will often choose the type of damage they debuff (cold/heat for a warden or wizard, disease/poison for an sk/warlock, ect). When someone starts running away, you hope you already have your debuff on them :) But honestly, it's not as ciritical as just having SOMETHINg to cast on the run for healers, and mages.
  8. ARCHIVED-Lilflier Guest

    I apologize for not reading this forum sooner. I had no idea this change was coming until I logged into my woodworker to go make a new cedar wand for my other priest who is about to hit 42... and was like... "where's my wand recipes?" Yes if had realized those recipes were being removed I would definately have said how much I use them. I understand they aren't as usefull in pve encounters... but then, pve mobs don't run away very often. It would be nice to have all twelve of them back, because picking the kind of damage to do is good based on the resists you might think a player will have. Thank you for looking at this.

    Even still though... i will sometimes kite pve mobs using them, and it's hard to kite without something to cast on the run.

    And... if i continue to play my priest... and get into any pvp fights... she is forced to accept xp and level up, unless i lose all the fights. I know it's my emergency, but the wand she will be using, will be 10 levels lower than the bow, that scouts she will be fighting, are going to be using.
  9. ARCHIVED-Lasai Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    That statement is still true, on the PvE servers the clickable effect was a waste. They sold about as well as the old Pikes did, abysmally.
    Instead of bringing something back that is useless to a very large majority, why not look at the throwing wand as done in WoW. If I recall, it was a primary slot weapon with no melee damage that did a small to moderate default ranged attack, shouldn't be any higher than the usual Mage's default melee damage, based on Str, otherwise it just adds more DPS to an already high DPS class.
    I don't want them back as they were. They were a joke long before the PvP servers existed, and the fact that they have found a small niche there doesn't really change thier uselessness in most other situations.
  10. ARCHIVED-Zabjade Guest

  11. ARCHIVED-ke'la Guest

    What about a Ranged Slot Wand that does say 60% of the Auto-attack Melee Damage of the current wands, while using some form of ammo, and have the ammo deturmin the Damage type, like how differant arrows cause differant damage types.
    The reason I say 60% of Auto-attack is really Mages already don't go into Melee range so this would be bonus DPS anyway, but it would give them the ablity to dps OOP, or on the run.
  12. ARCHIVED-Sehk Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    Our apologies for missing your post here re wands; most of us PvPers are so busy chatting with the flock of devs over on the PvP forums, it can get a bit hectic~ =)

    Wands have been a key component of some PvP casters arsenal for quite some time. As a rule, it's the only thing that can be 'cast on the run' akin to a melee classes bow/thrown weapon. For casters who don't have a root or snare, wands were often critical in chasing down and beating that type of player who chose to jump you (unsuccessfully), then run at 5% health, knowing well that you had no 'stopping power' on the move. 'Vital'? Not always, perhaps rarely, but vital enough that when you need one, you really need it =)

    Consider adding in any item, wand or otherwise, with a cast-on-the-move factor -- the caster's equivalent of a bow, if you will. Damage type, as pointed out above, was usually chosen to compliment your classes existing primary damage type; but something in straight magic flavour would probably work. Perhaps add a tiny snare component (10% for 10 sec). The previous 8 sec casting time was about right for PvP; any shorter and you'll see them overused to gain a power advantage; any longer would probably be taking it too far.

    Thanks Domino!
  13. ARCHIVED-Rashaak Guest

    These wands casting on the fly doesn't seem logical. Why would they be able to be cast when Hex dolls can not? that would possibly also mean that the Sanguine imbue on leggings be castable as well as rings...

    To me it sounds more like these wands casting on the fly was overlooked and have now since been corrected/removed/fixed. ;)
  14. ARCHIVED-Oakleafe Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    Domino, you asked the question in a multi-page thread about weaponsmiths ("Requests from a Master Weaponsmith" page 13 of 30), so it's no wonder you didn't get any feedback from woodworkers!

    Of the weapons we woodworkers get to make I have made far more wands than any other items, although admittedly only at the lower levels. For Priests and Mages in Tier 1-4 it's wands that are wanted most of the time, with tier 5 and 6 being more spellbinder or great staff requests because of the stats. Choice of wands is probably based on role play as much as anything (which is fair enough as this game is meant to be an RPG), but as a previous post said some do choose based on the debuff they have. I don't think this should be a case of which one damage type to bring back, just bring them all back so we can continue to have the choice based on our class and our role play themes.

    Removal of the wands just seems dumb to me. If you go around removing recipes because the items are not used much then you may as well take away every tier 8 weapon from woodworkers as I've only ever sold one!

    Please bring back the wands (in PvE and PvP), and please, please, please factor in variety, player choice and role play when you consider new changes.

  15. ARCHIVED-inhumanus1986 Guest

    The reason stated in the thread for lack of use of wands (and dolls for effects) - cast times. Eight seconds is silly in post lvl 20 combat or for a pull.

    My suggestion - wands 2 second cast -16 second recast (on the move i dont care : ))
    hex dolls 3 second cast - 30 plus second recast (the debuffs on some are uber).

    I would put them back in my spell rotation if they were made this way, but there may need to be a re-adjustment of hex dolls to be less powerful to implement this.......

    Inhumanus Nex
  16. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    Oakleafe wrote:
    Didn't you notice that they were all (excluding bows) removed in the last update along with the old wands?
    The replacements are much better for most purposes.
  17. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    inhumanus1986 wrote:
    Those would be too powerful.

    Remember the old wands could be used by any class, and don't use any power.
    I think the cast time needs to be longer that the weapon time so that casting would guaranteed the loss of at least one autoattack.

    My guard used hex dolls for debuffing mit and attack speed on tough solo fights vs (green) heroics prior to RoK, sometimes using it again in the middle of the fight.
  18. ARCHIVED-Gorkk00 Guest

    Terron@Splitpaw wrote:
    Those would be too powerful indeed, even if restricted to mage/priest. As a matter of fact, they should first be restricted to mage/priest, but they should as well keep a cast time of at least 4s (as there's several mage spells that are 4s cast). 5s would prolly be a max though. Of course, their damage needs to be balanced with the cast time (and so for every class that may use them, so that none of them can get, at times, better DPS using it than using their regular spells in normal conditions - i.e. not being out of range for spells and needed to move, forced to cast on the move, oop).

    Likewise, the debuff on hex doll would be a bit too fast a cast with 3s imho. I'd prolly go with 5s for both, and wands restricted to casters as a whole (mage and healer archetypes).

    As to the damage type, I'm no PVPer, but I think if there's only one type with one damage type, people would most likely tend to buff more their resist to that damage type, or at least have such an outfit for fighting casters. I think it's best to have a version with each damage type (and that would suit the hex dolls btw).
  19. ARCHIVED-Lodrelhai Guest

    Just to add a different viewpoint, I'm a master woodworker, I read and contributed to that thread regularly, and I was ready to dance when it was suggested that wands be removed.

    Beyond the rp choice, there just didn't seem to be much reason to buy them. At least with an imbued ritual dagger, if you were a soloing mage and ended up in melee range of the mob, you had a short at the proc going off. The wand imbue was only good for pulling, and only rarely then.

    I am not, however, a PVPer, and definitely see the issue there.

    I like the idea of a ranged-slot version, possibly with a unique ammo (jeweler made charged gemstones, perhaps?). Not mage-only, as it's been pointed out the priests in PVP use this too. Though having an auto-attack ranged item for priests/mages would probably end up very popular in PVE very quickly as well. The ammo itself could be various types (heat/disease/divine/magic?). Might not be as powerful as the old imbued wands were, but then, it'd also attack more often and much, much more quickly.

    As for what kind of imbue might go on it? Actually, I'd recommend developing a new imbue stat for ranged weapons which triggers off of ranged attacks or ranged/spell attacks. This imbue should then be swapped for the current imbue available on bows, bandoliers, sheathes, etc. Keep it as magic damage, to be in line with the imbues available on handheld crafted weapons.

    The biggest risk I see here is possibly overpowering classes that are already considered top-tier DPS.

    Any thoughts?
  20. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    Lodrelhai wrote:
    The new wand imbue triggers of spell attacks - the only ranged attacks that mages & priests have.
    The advantage of the old wands in PvP has been stated to be that they can be used on the move, when mages can cast, so could not trigger a proc.

    So to replace the old wands it needs to be activated and usable on the move.
    The easiest way provide that would be to bring back one of the old ones (magic would be my choice).

    I do not not know if the Bloodlines charged wands can be used on the move.
    They are mage only, but priests get scepters including one with a nuke - scepter of smiting - http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...vm?itemId=66460
    They have a casting time of one second.

    The priest scepters do heal, ward, divine nuke and debuff STR & attack speed.
    A range of those could make good consumables for weaponsmiths.

    The mage wands do encounter heat nuke, single target cold nuke & attack speed debuff, debug AGI & STR, and smaller encounter magic nuke + stun (max level 48 )

    There are scout and fighter items too.

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