Regarding cures, timewise..yes you'd say other healer classes have longer casting time, but I'd also say warden's heal are equally time consuming considering the amount of heal / stack / shorter duration of heals. All things looking equal theoretically, it's nonsense for a warden to go click single cure on groupmates in heated raid when other classes offer better group cure of that type of debuff. 9 outta 10 unless it's my signature cure, I can only afford to select cure on tank and another healer in raid. Even that often times I have to open with hot tickin' while I go around and cure. Personally I've met as much cure-happy cleric / shammy as myself, and met plenty of druids who don't cure at all by habit. It's hard to designate such duty..something that's just taken care of by force of habit no matter what class. It costs so little and easy to jump it(except tranquility..urgh). What concerns me is that such trivial(not in importance itself of curing) activity is drawn down to where the effectiveness of warden's presence is being discussed. Would you rely on cleric/shammy heal power competently for their spell duration at all times, so we can conduct other duties like cures? I sure don't. And they equally should not...well, likely scenario is they do not outright. There still lies our problem on healing. I don't give two cents about parsing numbers, it's never when and how.
Frankly I don't cure on a raid, unless it's group cure elemental/trauma. I am so busy casting heals making sure the tank is stacked that I just don't have time to cure. I think it's up to the individual MT groups on who is the designated curer and there is no one priest class who is more suited to it. Quite simply the curer is the person who likes doing it, and is more often that not the cleric or the druid. Shammys already have enough to do with debuffing and warding. Curing in a raid is just as vital as healing, but you won't see any of that showing up in a parse which means that it's a largely thankless job. But I certainly make sure I let the templar in my group know how much I appreciate what he does, because we would not be able to defeat a lot of the encounters we do without him curing.
If you don't cure on raids, no wonder you are having to non-stop heal...... Some of the debuffs the mobs stick on the tank in KoS zones knocks their mit into the floor and suddenly their HP is disappearing like they are wearing paper.... Get those debuffs cured, and you can take a lil breather ;-p Also jealous if you have enough heals to be at it non-stop..... single target wise I have 3 heals, and if spamming it tends to go 1-2-3 wait 1-2-3 wait (as I wait for one to re-pop) so I usually stick a cure in during the wait.... also, if there is a higher lvl Fury in the raid, I am knocked down to 2 heals I can use, as the 3rd comes up "would not take effect", so I have plenty of time for those cures and our debuff.... Course now I'm finally lvl 70, I should have my 3rd heal back - yay! Oh and just to keep it vaguely on topic, I too am pretty much always in the MT group on raids, along with a Templar and a Mystic. Oh and a Paladin, who is half a healer - I have to say that or my boyfriend gets upset when his healing abilities are disregarded - hehe.
Wardens get 2 direct heals not 3, the 3rd warden get is the regen which fury also have.. the 3rd direct heal you mention is a sore point for most other healing classes.. best try and avoid mentioning those on boards such as this it is not usually received with a friendly wink.
Yes but the HoT is overwritten by any other druid so typically only 1 druid in the raid will be casting it. So if you have more than 1 warden (which is not unusual) then 1 of them will have 2 single target heals. And IMO the HoT is preferably cast by a non MT druid anyway.
Not tryng to be rude ...but he said 3 SINGLE TARGET not direct Hehe - thankies - saved me saying it Oh and iceriven2 - I know what you mean about that 3rd one - drives me potty it does
You realise right that you only need ONE designated curer in the MT group? If everyone is curing then it's a huge waste of power. It just so happens our templar is the designated curer not me, and that was the point I as trying to make. No one priest class is suited to curing and whoever ends up doing the job is the one who wants/likes curing.
Oh, if the templar keeps the curing up, who keeps the group reactive up? It is a 5 sec cast overall and a debuff seems to land on the tank about every 2 secs from my experience.
Our Templar manages just fine curing and healing. It just comes down to skill and the fact that we know how to work together as a team.
Our Templar manages just fine curing and healing. It just comes down to skill and the fact that we know how to work together as a team [/QUOTE] Must put a rocket up our templar then - I end up doing most of the curing for our group coz I can't seem to pursuade the other healers to do it - LOL
ugg quit putting ideas in my furies heads... it took me long enough to train my puppies on how i like my healers to work <3 CDD... in all honesty its more who the raid leader or MT is more comfortable with... it also depends on the class of the MT... wardens give warriors alot more than they do crusaders (we have used both) when was the last time you saw a paly needing wisdom or more resists??? what does a guard need int for??? sandstorm is useful, even if its just there to offset the .5 sec that a debuff is hit... (also its the only way i've gotten one of my AAs to work on an epic)... but i can cap def solo... as for cures, i like it to be my druid, but it can be the cleric too... raid mobs hit so slow that there is plenty of time for reactives to never go down... now here is what i'm looking at as a guard MT (and as MT everything is about me)... 108 wis vs 108 int... i'll take the wisdom... 75 wis/agi vs 75 wis/int... agi > int +52 off stats vs 67str/agi & haste... i lose off stats from my def stance i can actully hit the mobs with this buff vs str that i'm already capped in, and haste that just means i can trigger a damage shield more often or just not hit the mob more often... that equals 182 wis (~540 to all resists or ~720 total), 75 agi, and +52 to my melee for the warden, spores... all useful 182 int (yay i proc 16 instead of 14 on my DS), 75 wis (225 to all resists), 67 agi, 67 str, haste, 62 regen (drop in the bucket)... the only reasons i'll put a fury over a warend is if i need porc on a hard pull (as much for me as the rest of MT group eating full AEs), or the fury is just way better upgraded spells... the extra resists the wardens add lets me keep more of my mita gear on and still be at acceptable lvls of resists... if i was a paly i'd pick the fury over the warden...
This is all just my personal opinion here, but I do not think it is an always this way or that way kind of deal. I think it depends on what works best in your particular raid force, the skill of the players, and player relationship. Now let me explain. I have been both the in MT group and not in MT group. Our originally MT always had me in the Mt group until he discovered the better mit he could get with different classes. So I moved out of the MT group. ( He was a Guardian fyi) Now we have a Berserker as MT and once again I find myself back in the MT group. His preference is to have the better resists over higher Mit. J Personally it does not matter to me where I am – It is what works for the raid to be successful that matters. The skill of the player is also very important. For example – just because a particular might be a great choice for the MT group does not mean that it always has to be set that way. A very knowledgeable, experienced Fury ( or any class) would be far better in the MT group than to have warden ( or any class) who does not have a clue how to play their toon. And last I do believe relationship between players counts also. If you put someone in the MT group whose personality clashes with the others then you are going to have problems. I am not saying that you have to be best buds with everyone in your force but you have to respect each other and trust each other. A great raid force is like a well oiled machine. You have to find what works best for you and your group. Then you have to do the position assigned to you to the best of your ability even if it is not necessarily where you want to be. I know I need to update my sig..lol
you are only discussing the pure numbers of buffs and heals. You should also look the psychologic side. A Fury is nearby a damage dealer. so they will sometimes do damage instead of healing, or think about doing damage and slowly react. A warden will never think about doing damage at all. Our damage is too bad even thinking about it a second is unbelievable. From this point of view it is alwasy better to but the warden in MT group.:smileytongue:
As your Warden should. I find the versatility of the Warden class extends to raids. If you're clearing trash mobs then chain nuking is the way to go because of how Wardens fit into the overall healing scheme. I've heard it all before, 'if you want to do damage go roll a Wizard', 'Wardens are healers, just heal', blah blah blah. Fact is that especially if someone else is in an off group keeping the hot up a Warden will have NOTHING to do on trash mobs or easier encounters then chain nuke. The poor ones will pigeonhole themselves into being just a healer and just sit on their butts while clearing trash mobs (like in PP return) at full power doing absolutely nothing. These same Wardens will probably feel they aren't useful in raids as well unless you're taking down a harder mob. The good Wardens will strap on some Intelligence gear and get nuking. I've hit 580 dps in a raid on trash mobs with wizards hitting only in the 600s. I've even outdpsed some Wizards and DPS classes when they've slacked... Wardens are the perfect benchmark for DPS classes. Outdps your warden or **** until you're ready to turn the TV off and contribute to the raid.... bunch of DPS slackers! Plus, because Wardens are the healer who's healing damage spikes and maybe curing Wardens tend to get a better feel for how hard an encounter is and is the best person to ask if buffs or strat needs to be changed. They should know when to switch from healing to nuking. They make great raid leaders /flex. Plus, and most importantly, there are some really nice HOs that come from Priest/scout or Priest/mage. Arcane Chalice comes to mind.. the 1200 mitigation group buff ho. Either that or the power hos for the healer. Mayi - 70 Warden - Lords of Chaos Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on 03-30-200612:00 PM
warden damage honestly isn't all that bad.. up your int and get good spell quality on damage abilities and get one of the spell proc items available and see how well you actually can do =P I was making the brig in my guild jealous the one night when I wasn't really needed fo rhealing so I asked him to parse me.
