Venril Sathir - unfair roadblock for some classes

leave this encounter as it is... It removes the turn and Burn concept that all to many encounters leave us facing. PR Ae's blah run out and back in, if need be... Pawbuster, Tank n spank keep healers in back.... Thuuga, Burn at 40%...mez or ae adds, blah...Kor-sha,tank n spank overking, kill adds easy enuff. Leviathin meh... hardest part is potion farming, if thats hard /shrug... Welcome to Vp enjoy your mythical. Of course this is coming from a very casual guild that does raid 3 sometimes 4 nights a week for 2-3 hours. Venril is a challenge, that is a good thing, we just recently took him down, was our 4 attempt/night giving him a shot. Great fight, people need to pay attention that is all.

If you have people that refuse to pay attention and / or follow directions they will get you killed. Your problem is the people in the raid, not Venril Sathir.

Banadux wrote:

I refuse to comment on this on the grounds that I may incriminate myself.

Other then learning the encounter, my guild has never needed more then 2-3 pulls on this mob. Which equates to the entire zone taking 20 - 25 minutes TOPS.
The most annoying part of the zone is having to go through seb to get there. But with raid flags not no more!

LHFOwner2 wrote:

There is no way I can read the post beyond this. Im shocked lol. Just wow...am I in the Twighlight Zone? I mean...stop the bus...did he really say that???

How about reading all of my original post and not taking things out of context. Thanks.
I'm still dumb-founded that some people are still saying this guy is appropriate for T2. Seriously, stop kidding yourselves. Believe me, if he was in Levi's spot, or anywhere in VP then I would not have started this thread. He's out-of-whack for T2 and worse he's only needed by some classes, which means taking up an entire raid's evening doing something they don't want to do (and who can blame them).

LHFOwner2 wrote:

Maybe he is, but that doesn't change the fact that he is a T2 mob, required for mythical updates. Mythicals are already ridiculously easy for being the best weapon in game, hands down. Do you really want to trivialise the content more? Why not just give everyone their mythical without doing anything. Deal with it.

Dakkota@Unrest wrote:

/r Sorry about the wipe everyone, my ADHD meds are wearing off.

GangleG wrote:

It's sweeping statements like this that fuel the whole casual / raider thing.
Myths are only ridiculously easy for a small percentage of the population, for most people they are ridiculously hard, verging on the unatainable.

Errolflynn@Befallen wrote:

Well, if a guild cannot attain mythicals, then they can't attain them. Asking for mobs to be nerfed/removed from progression is a ridiculous request.

Errolflynn@Befallen wrote:

Agreed. At a minimum VS should be required by everyone to get into CoD.

GangleG wrote:

Actually the suggestion is to move it smack bang into the middle of progression like Leviathan so everybody has to do it, not 1/3 of the classes for their Myth.
The problem is ATM it is out of whack with RoK and Levi and can be avoided entirely apart from for the poor smucks that need it for the Myths.

LHFOwner2 wrote:

I think he is fine for T2. It took my guild about the same amount of hours to learn VS as it took to learn overking. Neither are that difficult if you have intelligent people in your raid who can pay attention when they are raiding.
If you dont have that, then this mob will be tough.
THE ONLY THING HARD ABOUT THIS FIGHT IS THE FACT THAT PEOPLE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION. But they should be for every encounter, right?

mikeyswizz wrote:

No, people need to pay attention in most fights. What makes Venril frustrating and unenjoyable is that there ar emultiple, unrecoverable fail conditions which afford virtually no margin of error. Making sure 24 people perform as required without a single mistake is exponentially more difficult than any other fight in RoK. More importantly, Venril is not a fun fight, and is indicative of the flaws in EQ2 raiding. Raiding has become about following scripts and jumping through hoops, not playing your class and building solid groups. I'd rather see fights like Nexona, which require very good overall raid coordination and solid class play. Unfortunately, the devs have followed the Venril route and sucked the fun out of raiding. Venril was the shark, and EQ2 jumped it.

There is only one fail condition: Low Power.
High Power will likely get that person killed, but it won't summon adds or wipe the raid.

Dasein wrote:

You obviously don't know the encounter well enough. The only fail condition worth noting is dropping below 20% power and if you keep your raid between 50%-65% this will NEVER happen.
I don't include the statues as a fail condition because if whoever you have on those can't do it then you should boot them from the guild immediately.

mikeyswizz wrote:

There's also the Toxic Infusion/Fatalisis fail condition. The power management issue is also made more complex by Mana Sacrifice. There's also the reactive fear proc. All these things combined make the fail conditions far more likely to occur - as in, a heal get hit with mana sacrifice at the same time a noxious spell gets reflected, and someone gets feared. That's a wipe right there.
You are simply glossing over many aspects of the fight which make it far more frustrating that just about anything else out there. The multiple effects involved are designed to make the fail conditions occur far more often than they should.

Dasein wrote:

No, your players are obviously not smart enough to deal with the encounter. If fear is reflecting on DPS causing them not to cure themselves when the noxious AE goes off its because your people are too dumb to stop doing damage when the noxious AE is incoming.
Besides, you can still cast a cure with mana sacrifice if you keep your power above 55% instead of hovering around 30%.
And Fatalisis hitting someone with the noxious is not a fail condition.

The real discussion should not be about the difficulty of this particular encounter, but the location it exists in raid progression.
Should a raid that can kill Trak, and even RoK avatars, go to fight a T2 progression raid encounter knowing full well they'll probably wipe a few times? I would think a mob that low in the progression should be a 1 pull, but I haven't read a single post here where they claimed their raid killed him on the first pull.

Some of the 'Uber raiders' posting here might have beaten Venril at a stage where he was easier than he is now. They kinda screwed up in RoK on release and a lot of encounters were broken, yet still rewarded kill credit. For a time in RoK, patches were consistantly increasing the difficulty of certain raid encounters. This means the uber guilds who were first to kill many mobs bypassed a roadblock without ever really knowing the challenge it presents to someone in lesser quality gear.
Not only that, but a guild full of mythicals doing mythical quality dps have a much shorter fight on their hands, and that means a shorter period of time where things could go wrong. I think many mythicalled raiders are out of touch with what it once was to raid before they got them.

TheSpin wrote:

Are you kidding me? He's been nerfed into nothing; he hits like a Troubador and has barely any hitpoints. The only time he was hard was when the devs bugged him, making his AE go off randomly with 3 seconds to cure.
We killed him 2 weeks ago with two groups - the mob is not hard at all.