Upcoming Changes for Free and Silver Members

maybe tomorrow

Hi folks,

The Update Notes for tomorrow's patch have been posted and, yes, the membership changes for Free and Silver are included.

~Dexella

There will be a lot of players in the starting zones tomorrow.

You can't have it both ways. Either the price that you pay gives you the same things as it did before the change, or it doesn't give you the same things as it did before the change. If the price you pay increases when the bronze and silver account changes occur, then you have a valid financial complaint - because that would be true inflation. If the amount remains the same, then essentially your argument becomes "but then I won't feel as special" - which is valid as a feeling, but not as a basis for intelligent discussion.

If this helps visualize it, let's use variables A, B, and C - which represent Bronze, Silver, and Gold members, respectively. Now let's assign arbitrary numbers to those variables - A = 8, B = 13, C = 20. A change occurs that increases the value of A and B by 5 each. Now A = 13, B = 18, and C = 20. Notice that an increase in the value of A and B does not decrease the value of C. Yes, the difference between the values of the variables has changed, but the value of C still remains the same. Likewise, an increase in the value of Bronze and Silver accounts does not correspond to a decrease in the value of a Gold account.

As a fellow gold member, I'm not getting anything less than I was for the same amount (actually, I might be paying more than you are paying, because I pay for three Station Access accounts, even though I only have the time for EQ2 presently) than I was prior to the change. I don't have a problem with what they are getting (although, if it was up to me, they would have only one class and one race - the least popular of each - without paying for unlockers; but since the decision isn't mine, I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it).

You are more than welcome to engage in contortions to your heart's content, though.

I'll be one of them. Actually played the game a little bit back at my friend's house years ago. Looking forward to checking the game out.

While we're talking about value, I think it's worth noting the fact that the subscription price never goes up, but the value has gone up over the years.

Wow, TBH I am starting to agree. I have been playing for the most part since this was released in 2004 (and before that in EQ1) and not ONE of the bugs/feedback I have ever submitted has been fixed or really taken into consideration as far as I know. It is actually starting to become pointless to me to even log in as all of my friends have quit already and I guess I fool myself into playing because one day I think things will be more fun. But seriously, I will probably switch to F2P as well. Might as well get what I don't pay for.

Not sure where you get the both ways idea. I used a basic econ 101 principle, the more or less of a product available for a given standard causes the value of the standard to increase or decrease with the availability for the product.

The rest of what you wrote is the contortion to be honest. To try again to make this simple, before the changes to f2p I paid 15 dollars for the bag slots, character slots, and other various services. After the changes yes I still get those things but not because I am paying for them, they are free, HOWEVER they are no longer part of the services I received under the 15 dollar subscription. So yes I have the same services but my 15 dollars is purchasing less of those services ergo the value of the gold subscription has gone down because what comes with the gold subscription is less.

This has nothing to do with feeling special and I might add I am starting to understand why America as a whole is having so many financial issues when in the microcosm so many here can't seem to grasp the concept of the "value of money" which is a different concept from the "quantity of money." This whole debate for me has always been about the value I am receiving for my 15 dollars, not what I am also receiving that is free. Anything that is free is independent from what I am also paying for, that is the nature of "free" it has nothing to do with being elite, special or whatever other ad hominem you choose to throw out.

Those services provided specifically for 15 dollars are less today than they were yesterday it does not matter that they are now received free. the gold subscription now provides less specifically under the umbrella of the subscription than it did before because they moved some of those services under the free umbrella.

First you should have taken 5 from gold, remember what was originally part of gold has now been given to silver and bronze it is no longer provided under gold it is part of silver and bronze, both of which are part of gold. so yes the quantity will stay the same but not the value, you are actually speaking in quantities not values, a subtle but significant difference.

If you will allow me?

Let us say you bought 5 apples today for 10 dollars, tomorrow you buy 5 apples but I tell you I will give you 3 of those apples for free but you have to pay for the other 2 and the cost is 10 dollars (assume you are a good customer and I want to give you a break on the price increase). There are now two ways to understand this change, the first obvious one is each apple still cost you two dollars a piece because you got the same amount.

What though would you say if I asked how much do the apples actually cost minus the free promotional apples? You would now say 5 dollars an apple. Should you go back for more I would only sell you 2 apples for 10 dollars, the other apples were free and I do not have to keep giving you free apples.

Yes you got the same amount of product but the value of the money to buy that product has gone down.*

* I realize SOE isn't going to stop providing the free services this is just an analogy for purposes of clarification and as with any analogy is not a perfect fit.

I fully agree with this statement, the value of the game has gone up which is why I am still playing and paying

And actually that is why I was complaining, since they increased the subscription rates for European players.
And you know what? The new prices are starting ... tomorrow.

Example: A British Pound 3 month subscription is increasing from 22.47 to 25.17.

Quote:

I also played Eq1 and Eq2 both pretty much from start, stopped gaming about 3 years ago. A year ago I got the itch again, that was about the time Aion went "Truly free" so I tried that. Aion isn't Eq2, but its still a great game. Anyhow, the model they have works great, absolutely free, no subs at all. They make cash off of the marketplace stuff, and yes I have spent money there. I will be coming back to Eq2 like I did 4 months before Aion, but populations were so low in the towns that it was almost like a single player game. IMO the guild halls should not have so many convieniences in them, there's no reason to go to towns or common areas. Anyhow, I eventually see Soe going totally free, I have experienced it and it works.

Point blank. If you no longer wish to pay for a gold subscription because you feel you are being ripped off, then don't pay for it. That is a decision that is between you and your wallet (or whatever they call them on that side of whichever pond). If you choose to continue paying the amount for a gold subscription, then this implies that you feel the things that remain inaccessible to silver and bronze members are worth the price you pay for the gold subscription. Otherwise, you wouldn't pay it.

At this point, you have basically two options: drop down to silver (with its accompanying restrictions, which are less than they were), or continue to pay the gold subscription rate for the same amount of product you were getting before the change. Either way, venting on the forums isn't likely to change what you get.

We'll have to wait and see how that game does. Their publisher (NCSoft) has a terrible track record for retaining games.

Towns may be a bit empty in EQ2, but that doesn't mean there isn't an active population. I see plenty of people as I wander around and there's always activity on those chat channels. There's something to be said for having people spread out in their guild halls. I just returned to EQ1 the other day and I was in one of those common areas, where people generally gather. It can be difficult to move around with all those people there. If we didn't have people spead out in halls we would have quite a few laggy instances of towns like Gorowyn. Guildmates and friends would likely end up separated on a regular basis. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what first inspired the creation of halls.

What you wrote above is conceptually what I said in my first post . As for venting I suggest you reread my original post and all the ones going forward. They hardly qualify as venting. I presented reasoned responses supporting my point of view. Please try not to dismiss them as venting simply because you disagree with them, two people can disagree on things such as value and be neither right or wrong just different.

As to using the forums this is exactly what they are for , presenting a view point to those who read them, of which SoE is one and they do in fact change based on some forum input. Typically not on one person's but should the group see things a certain way SoE has shown the capacity to consider the groups opinion and change if warranted.

Now, should I not post this concern, how exactly would SoE hear about it? How would others of possible like mind know they are not alone in thier opinion? I guess I should ask why is it you seem intent in squelching this specific opinion? Should not the group as a whole be exposed to differing points of view in a reasonable manner and discuss them in an open forum? Again I maintain I never vented or presented this subject in a manner that was offensive or rude. Please feel free to quote any post in this thread where you believe I did otherwise. On the other hand I can show posts where ad hominem attacks have been leveled against me for daring to challenge the value of a gold subscription.

/feedback

/guildsay, /groupsay, lvl chat, /ooc, etc.

Because I dislike the attitude of entitlement that is rampant among the player base. Claiming that somebody else catching a break makes what you paid for less valuable seems to support that attitude. I'm personally of the opinion that one should speak with one's wallet. If you don't think that you are getting your money's worth, then stop spending the money. If you don't wish to stop spending the money, then sit down - you're scaring away the fish.

Sure. I'm presenting my point of view about your presentation of your point of view. Is discussion not what has taken place?

Apparently we have different definitions of the word vent (as opposed to Vent, which is short for Ventrilo). To me it means to air one's frustrations in a public or semi-public place (to include a non-physical location). What does it mean to you?

I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not intend for your posts to be interpreted in the manner in which they were. To me, it came across as acrimonious complaining that you felt that SOE was being too nice to the Bronze and Silver members and that you felt that Gold members should receive something more than they currently receive as a result.

While I agree with the first part, I disagree with the second. Regardless, though, I know my limits and I know that nothing I can do or say will convince SOE to do anything other than what they intend to do. I wouldn't expect them to do so. A game company that tries to please everybody at the same time runs the risk of not pleasing anyone.

Thank you SOE, this is a good move and I'm hoping I can get some of my friends to play now that classes and races are not restricted. Those very things are what initially attach a player to a character, and this will make it easier for people to roll an alt they just might fall in love with enough to keep playing. As for the gold members who might feel cheated, maybe you could offer them something like you did for Vanguard, like an around the clock XP boost for the duration they are subbing. That way they feel appreciated, and free players feel appreciated for the current restriction lift. Again, thank you for making it easier for us to recruit friends.

Little late to the thread but why won't you let silver accounts gift for friends? Doesn't make sense that a silver account might buy 30 bucks worth of station cash but can't buy a friend a gift. Do you hate making more profit or something?

I believe its due to credit card fraud. You must have a gold recurring subscription to gift. This means SoE has credit card info on file for you and it helps protect them if you use a stolen credit card.

Take me for example. I've been a Gold member for a long time but I bought over a year's worth of Gold with station cash when that was still possible. So I can't gift because my sub isn't recurring.

Isn't it the bank though who has eat to charges on credit card fraud?