Tying the EQ Universe Lore Together

Discussion in 'History and Lore 2' started by Mikegonz, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Rezikai Member

    Still doesn't make figuring out the entire mess we have any easier...

    Mary's got very valid points tho, Flash&Zoom aside reasoning of why things happen is different from trying to piece them together coherently. I'm sure she understands why these things happened (we had so many story lines arcing over time and different devs hands in the cookie jar) .The entirety of trying to piece everything together has either become such a monumental task that even asking the devs to try and start tying stuff together would overwhelm them... if they were to try a dev(s) would need to work out:

    Anashti's continued plans under Sinking Sands in the Godkings Chamber(w/the Teir'dal reconstructed Ewer)
    Continue the story of Malkonis D'Morte since he survived the raid on the Freethinkers hideout
    Mayong/Ydal/Innorruuk ~saga, so much around that it's too much to mention
    Reen Rohen Theer, he's still chilling out in the Stonebrunt Highlands
    Searching for Lucan's ex-lover turned traitor Tayil N'Velex after she opened the void portals in Deathknell & later stole Soulfire.
    Kane Bayle, still upset at failing to kill Antonia and since he's an immortal spirit he's got the time to kill.
    Erolisi/Ullkorruuk saga - I'll give this one a pass since its more a V-day event story that as expected progresses a little each year.
    Lenya Thex, we know Lenya has accepted Mayong's kiss of vampirsm and started her (slower and less painful) transformation, Marcus Thex is a ~K'nundrum~ seeing as we're told by Gninja i think? that he survived and was stopped from being turned into a vamp, but in-game (which we are always told trumps ALL-other lore points per every dev ever) there is no way to stop his transformation and he comments "We are too late" and he feels "so cold'. His tranformation took place and he's now a vamp. Lenya even gives us old king Tearis' crown to give to a steward to find a new heir, maybe Fironia Vie since she's the queen's daughter but meh who knows.
    Talvis Thex, a few years since we seen him try and collaborate with the small pack of weaker vamps in Darklight Wood.(personal fave btw)
    Queen Cristanos' vie for power- a hint in the Freeblood documents of experimentation by Mayongs scholars hint that she "may" be being controlled by another entity since her voice is overlapped *shrugs*
    Trakanon being able to return to being a Sky blue Dragon from being undead and taking over the Ring of Scale (guess their all dead now tho since the old epics were like "umm go slay a dragon to finish the epic-i-ness of your weapon"!
    Xilania Nevagon Seraph of hate, has hidden ties to Lucan but is a half-elf as a Seraph of Hate in Nerak dubbya-tee-eff?
    Droags still assaulting the wall in the Overthere (Jarsath Wastes) even w/the dragons dead need new leadership
    Najena I suppose I can pass on this one to since she did discover a Rune of Theer and uncloaked different void towers using it and we rescue her so she may have decided to take things easy since then and since her cousin/family isn't as in-control over Neriak as it would appear.
    Bayden Cauldthorn once thought to be the primary suitor for Antonia as the circle of 5 (actually 10) wanted her to have offspring to continue the Bayle lineage, he was a Lordknight that found the portal to the shard of Love, haven't heard much of him since then.
    Floatilla of ships around the Isles of Refuge, those npc's have been in Qeynos and Freeport for quite a while so that blockade must be in need of some shore leave by now.
    The Ratonga/Roekillik underfoot escape/Caertex worshipping rodents still not sure if they're good or evil or what they wanted/intended to do.
    Master Yael's dead/defeated doesn't resonate hugely within the Norrathian world, but since he was the Underfoot Door Guardian you'd think panic would ensue.
    Bloodbeak & Capt. Siren I'm going to give this one a pass since Siren was used in the more recent adventures of Freeport with the now known as not-dead Foci Opal Darkbriar

    These below haven't moved and probably won't as I assume the story lines are pretty much considered finished to the powers that be and/or aren't going to be looked at again in a while since the devs are focused on current content

    Everling still split into 3, the Book in Everling castle has still after 3 years not reset if a player answers the questions it asks incorrectly to allow a player to retry the answers
    Ancient/Ancestral Champions named the Ethernaughts still missing since the fight they had w/Anashti
    Deathfist Empire conveniently remembering to be stupid as not to retry and gain a war footing army or naval wise anywhere but Zek isle.
    Nagafen trying to help/use adventurers with their own plans to further their power. (I was dissapoint- to see him no used w/Vesspyr Isles since it was so clear that the situation was so close to the old KoS situations.
    Ralem Cristof no longer content in the Peacock Club is still perma-stationed in the human blood-cattle ranch that is Somborn Village even though the town has vamps for elders
    New Tunaria still xenophobic and still being eaten by vamps at night even though Mayong's been gone a while
    Kaladim the only dwarven city had its levels changed from 55-60ish to a lower tiered dungeon and the story there has been its overrun never to return it seem
    Valkyries all of them seem to be content in having their storyline be used as mostly fluffier zones such as the Christmas raid zone (and the Frostfanged isle one that I still don't really understand how it fit but meh.
    Bloodline Chronicles camps (Hand of Marr and Bretheren of Night) was finished after T'Haen was slain and the guild that did it got put into a small lore tidbit. The Bretheren of the Night were used again in DoF when the evil side had some agents in Living Tombs and they all get slaughtered but you would think that they would have some lore attached to the Freebloods seeing as the good side has a husband and wife team that are trying to deal with her vampism. *shrugs*
    BloodSabres still under Qeynos still acting as if they mean something to someone...
    Ingrid- Captian of the Far Dawn has been at Mara and in Timorous Deep for a while did she get killed in a quest or something?
    Tarinax the Destroyer forever locked in the vault of Deathtoll apaprently.

    Again these are just some of the stories now taking a backseat to the Duality-Twin Swords-Zek/Invasion-Kerafyrm story that's drenched us for the last 3 expacs since Velious/Age of Discovery/Vesspyr Isles. Making sense of these let alone figuring them all out in a timeline was a hard thing to do "someone" mentioned a universal timeline was made prior to EQ2 but I'm not sure if it's been followed. Weather or not it would help at this point is moot as it appears some powers that be have decided to take EQ2 in a different/new direction.

    I'd say after the Duality/Kerfyrm debacle ends.. lets wipe the slate clean of most of that and get back to a random adventuring group coming across a village needing defended from a gnoll pack. Sometimes planet ending world stories such as our current story fall into the "next big enemy" ala the horrid EQ1 Discord story arcs ... I just hope we don't have these certain "even more bigger" bosses keep coming back like a 2-bit Cobra Commander.
  2. Rapha Nissi New Member

    I've noticed the discussions here on the boards has almost all but stopped. I realize some of this has to do with people moving on to different games, but the points brought up by Rezi and Mary could be the bigger reason. It is hard to discuss and try to figure out what is coming next when we no longer know who is pulling from what when it comes to the story lines. I completely understand how and why this happens as time goes by, but inactive boards are a sad consequence of it happing :(
    Rezikai likes this.
  3. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Mainly its the lack of interest. Sometimes I think its only me and Rainmare that try to answer anything in the Lore forum anymore. Both Mary and Rezikai have been quite for a while and have recently become active again, the same as Rapha (though Rapha's absence has been much longer). It is encouraging to see these veterans of the Lore forums posting again.

    Though people have to ask questions for there to be activity. I've gone out of my way to start new threads when things get too quiet to keep a little activity going.
    Rapha Nissi likes this.
  4. Iskandar Member

    For there to be any real discussion, we also need something to discuss. Take the Aerakyn discussion earlier in this thread, for example... we could spend pages discussing Aerakyn and Drakkin and Dyn'leth... but it would all just be pure speculation since there's no actual material to discuss. :( We have Aerakyn mobs ingame, they're linked to Vyemm, and... that's it. That's not much to build a discussion upon... Without something to actually discuss, some puzzle or clue or hint or something, there's not gonna be much going on here, other than reciting/explaining existing lore to people and posting conjecture. :(
  5. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Chymot tells us that the Aerakyn are alive. Yelnik tells us that they have come through small planar portals from the Temple of Veeshan. The only other living dragon-kin we've seen are the Drakota that attacked Chymot. All of these are amongst the smallest of dragon-kin. I think they were sent by the living Awakened as the first forces that could get from the Temple to the Vesspyr Isles. After that I think us destroying the only(?) Tear of Veeshan that the Awakened possess has prevented the portal from growing to accommodate larger beings.
  6. Rezikai Member

    Hey I've been around plenty I'm just not that interested in the Global DOOM! arc we've been put in since TSO/Odus. which was 2007? jeebus 6 years. (i was going to count Kunark b/c of Mayong at the end of the Fate of Norrath quest but since it doesn't happen until the end so i let it slide).

    I mean I like some of it sure, the Tserrina TOFS arcs the Coldain arcs, I'm just not as enthused as I was w/the Ages End arc as I used to be when I heard about it in TSO-into-SF. It's fine and dandy but there's so many threads on this spider web left to check that Lolth herself would have a time to keeping them all,... thats a good thing mind you, but ignoring them for so long does mean they no longer are remembered / congealed as a cohesive story.

    So when the Ages End is stopped and we go back to Tomb Raiding in places like Silent City or trotting around the Loping plains (Or the yet to be discovered lost isles of the Shattered lands or more kunark/Faydwer) I'll be more active. I prefer the old Vanilla stuff in EQ1 much more then the planes of power or Kunark to be honest...so when it comes time for the Freethinkers calling out for adventurers to help clear out the Phantom Forest isle (old Kithicor) or the far eastern shore of Faydwer with the ruined old Koada'Dal watchtowers or maybe even the Fayspire, i'll be around more.
    Spindle likes this.
  7. Meirril Well-Known Member

    We're still trudging through the major story of EQ2 which has been going on since day one. I'm just glad we're getting to the point where I can see daylight somewhere down the end of the tunnel. Thing is I think Next will be out before we get there.
    Mary the Prophetess and Spindle like this.
  8. Anaogi Well-Known Member

    Iskandar's got it right. For every loose thread and question, there's a volume of...nothing. Barely any lore turning up beyond the bare minimum needed to get a Signature Quest tied together. Remember when we used to have those forum-fansite bits fed out that sparked global scavenger hunts? Remember when the last one of those was? 2008.

    Mayong? Nothing in years, even counting the tangential items from Velious. Remember all that stuff from Obelisk, so completely shunted aside and forgotten with Shadow Odyssey? Nothing more on the Greenmist? How about our Highkeep? Come to think, the Far Seas folks are barely looked into as more than simple task-givers. And why, exactly, were the Isles of Refuge cut off but the overall trade networks keep growing? And I'm convinced nobody has anything thought out about the Nexus beyond what they needed for the ToV Signature Quest.

    We may be the last ones left who care, and that's just sad.
    Mary the Prophetess likes this.
  9. Meirril Well-Known Member

    The Isle of Refuge being cut off is probably nothing more than the dev team providing an in-game explanation of why you can't start there anymore. The Far Seas Trade Company already operated in both major cities and we've known that they operate out of the island of High Keep.

    If I had to hazard a guess as to why they haven't done High Keep its probably because it would be a lot of work with a very small return. High Keep should be a city that is at least as large as Thurgadin. Heck, it should actually have all the hustle and bustle of Freeport and Qeynos. Loads of warehouses. Tons of shops. A functional casino. What it shouldn't have is a whole lot of reasons for adventurers to go there. It could be used as a quest hub, or we could be rooting out spies and work for factions trying to gain control over the entire company...but that isn't a very compelling reason to make this city.

    I'm sure the "truth" behind the Nexus is written down somewhere that we'll never see it. Just like I'm sure that someday we'll use that hatch in the Quellthulian nexus to enter it. We've had a lot of major plot line revolving around the various Nexus constructs. The dev team isn't done with it yet.
  10. Mikegonz New Member

    I sure hope so. To be honest, I'm so sick of this Age's End stuff that it isn't even funny. It's sooo dragged out, and so many great storylines are just being used for some purpose along the way, only to be thrown away. It's a real shame.

    Anashti was used as a mere plot device. A god was brought back into the pantheon. A cohesive story focusing on her, response from the other Gods, her goals, then and now, and expansion of her ties with Xul'Varien never came. The entire Shadow Odyssey expansion could have been skipped with the way it was handled. We should have just had Theer doing the invasion.

    And what of Theer? It's been three expansions since we last heard of him. You brought in the Avatar of the Nameless, and used him as another plot device just to make Kerafyrm an all-powerful, god-slaying beast. While we understand it was to bring about the current storyline, any lore, discussion, or progression on his story is gone. Empty. You might as well have just had Kerafyrm find out how to obtain power to slay Gods and been on with it.

    Moving forward from Age's End, everything should be a walk in the park. We'll not only rid the world of a prismatic dragon, but a prismatic dragon with the powers of the Avatar of the Nameless! I think we're good against any threat now. That is, unless we must be facing the powers of the Nameless next.

    The way the story has been told is just additions of more and more plot devices that could have had so much potential if they were given the attention of good storytelling. They all seem so unimportant now. We need to go back from having the entire story being about you, savior of the world, and instead bring back the mythology and storytelling of the world and universe itself. Keeping these things as mysteries will only remain mysteries until people get tired of waiting. If its never told, you'll make people wonder why you even mentioned it at all.

    And I have to agree with Mary. Just muddling the lore in making more "truths" makes the story less engaging. It got worse when they made the statement that the Ethernere was the point in which all universes connected. There was only one Ethernere.

    Does that mean there could be infinite Cazic Thules, since Cazic from EQ1 tried to overtake Cazic from EQ2? When our gods were gone and we couldn't enter their planes, why couldn't we go just go to another universe's god's plane. If there's only one Drinal, is he omnipresent, and therefore more powerful than the other gods?

    If you're going to say: "Look! These two universes are interacting again!" you have to be able to confirm that either: they are independent from PoP forward (which says any history we learn from either game applies to both), or no, they're totally independent stories, like EQN. If you don't, you're going to have problems. If we can say, yes, everything before PoP applies, then you can leave it to us to figure out how the pieces fit. It's ok if you have to retcon stuff too, but leaving it ambiguous just messes things up.

    Finally, I don't see why you have to wait to tell these stories, even if it is through other media. Even lore bits here on this forum might cause more participation among the community. It doesn't hurt to stir discussion that leads to some of these mysteries being solved. I used to love good short stories that made me eager to read the next part.

    There are other ways to market a game besides features. I think you can reach a lot of people by making playing the game like reading a book. Make it so we play to learn and uncover more through our adventures, while making connections that aren't entirely specific or directed. Spark discussions that cause debate, that are finally answered in or out of game, and then move on to the next. If you end up saving these stories up for too long, you'll never get to tell them.
    Anaogi and Mary the Prophetess like this.
  11. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I'll agree that the Ethernere isn't well handled. Honestly, we haven't seen enough beings to convince me that multiple threads dump into our Ethernere...unless there is an Obol Plains for every thread with a Loping Plains. Considering that souls can only not move on in the EQ1/2 threads...how exactly did the Ethernere get so bloated from 2 existences when it should touch all of them?

    Drinal is a special case. He isn't really suppose to be a god. He was suppose to be just a guide for souls to pass on, someone to watch the tide and make sure it doesn't get blocked. That it could get blocked and he couldn't do anything about it...doesn't make sense. It would be like Rohen Theer having trouble with a god that has upset the balance and that god being beyond his ability to kill them. Wasn't he designed to kill gods? Shouldn't Drinal be designed to take care of this sort of situation? These beings were direct creations of the Nameless, I'd expect a bit more.
  12. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    Drinal can't send souls during the god's hiatus because the gods had closed access to their own planes. it's a two way street. they can't interfere in Etherenere, and Drinal can't force anything into their planes. and unfortunately, while Eq1 souls can pass to thier deity planes, it doesn't work with the Eq2 souls. and unlike Eq1...Eq2 has had masssive global deaths form the Shattering/Rending/2nd Rallosian War.

    Remember that other then Cazic who could 'feel' his Eq2 self...everyone that goes to Ethernere sees thier own version of 'reality'. so an Eq1 Ogres version of the Feerott is different then an Eq2 ogres version...and apparently those two versions don't interact on a level that allows an eq1 ogre to even know and eq2 ogre is there.

    I almost see ethernere a s pillar, to which all other norraths/deity planes connect, but at different levels. Eq1 is a ring below Eq2...which is why it was a big deal from Cazic to try and step up a ring to siphon from eq2. he shouldn't have even known an Eq2 Cazic existed.
    Mixxit likes this.
  13. Meirril Well-Known Member

    By this metaphor shouldn't we have not known EQ1's Cazic Thule was in the Ethernere, and our interaction with other CT followers in the Ethernere been limited to the ones from EQ2? We got spillage from one thread to another in the Ethernere.

    Likewise the Aerykin. Are they from our thread then? Is Kerafyrm and/or the Awakened Cult making them? I was under the impression that they were from a different thread, though just for the reason they first appeared during ToV.
  14. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    well we don't until we're actually there. in fact part of the line does have you express surprise that CT was there, and that we'd have to deal with him. because gods aren't supposed to 'die' and that meant that Rallos and Ct trying for their get out of oblivion free card screwed with the balance.

    the Aerykin are from ToV, which is from our Norrath that Kera has shoved into Ethernere via the Tear. so their living things....probably manufactured in the Labs of Mutation.
  15. Meirril Well-Known Member

    That brings up an interesting question. How long have the Awakened held the Temple of Veeshan? According to Skyshrine lore the attack on Skyshrine was a two-pronged attack with both Skyshrine and the Temple being attacked simultaneously. That way the defenders from one couldn't support the other. This also means the Tear of Veeshan we found in Cobalt Scar hasn't been there all that long (which makes sense, the Awakened aren't going to let a major artifact like that remain lost for long).

    So how long as the Laboratory of Mutation existed? Was it being used by the Claws of Veeshan and then taken over by the Awakened, or did the Awakened construct the laboratory after the Temple was captured? If the Aerykin were created here...does that mean there are Aerykin that belong to the CoV as well as the Awakened? Or are they exclusively followers of the Awakened?

    I'm still not convinced that the Aerykin were created by the Awakened and I think there is a possibility they come from another thread. There is also the possibility that EQ2 is going to bring in that brood of dragons in the Rathe Mountains that was introduced in EQ1, and place them on the Awakened cult's side.
  16. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    well we know that the assaults on Skyshrine and ToV...there had to be 2 attacks on skyshrine imo since Dozekar is there, and he was locked in ToV and the first thing Kera did after awakening was hit skyshrine the first time, which is why the Crusaders were sent from ToV in the first place. so I think that went Awakening - Assault on Skyshrine/Yelniak beaten near dead/Crusaders sent - Kera sacks ToV/frees Doze/Doze sent to finish the job in Skyshrine/ Collapse of the Western wastes - Tov converted into the Awakened HQ.

    But I think ToV has been in Kera's hands for awhile now. at least since DoV, possibly earlier. We see him on Odus in his alternate form, but at that point he could have and probably did, have ToV already.

    I think the Aerykin are what Kera did with the eggs mentioned in the book talking about ToV's sacking. he used the eggs of his enemies and twisted them into the Aerykin, which is why they call themselves dragons when you fight them. 'you dare to stand against dragons?' and 'We are born of dragons!'

    and since we've seen nothing of the 'brood' from Eq1, and I can't see Kera with his attitude toward the lesser races even remotely wanting to ally with dragons that would breed with them, I think they are manufactured in ToV itself, more like Kera's version of a 'superior' Droag.
  17. Meirril Well-Known Member

    It doesn't make sense for the Crusaders to hang out in Skyshrine when the Temple of Veeshan is being attacked by the Awakened. The only reason they wouldn't leave Skyshrine immediately is because it too is under attack. It could be that the siege of Skyshrine took more than a few days, but it had to begin before word came from the Temple that they were under attack or Grendish wouldn't of had help from the Awakened to kill the other crusaders.

    And these superior Droag look more like the lesser races than the Droag. Kerafyrm did conspire with the lesser races to get a lot of things done, including using them as researchers in their laboratories and as tools to get the Godslaying powers. That is kind of a mixed message. I'm not convinced they are native to our Norrath, or that Kerafyrm hasn't learned how to go between threads, which could explain his several hundred year disappearance.
  18. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    I don't think Grendish had a lot of help. or we coudl both be right. Kera fights at Skyshrine, makes a tactical retreat when the crusaders arrive but leaves some forces to keep the siege going...and hits ToV, and sacks it, freeing Doze. Doze goes to take command of the Skyshrine assault, and skyshrine attempts to send a force that gets slaughtered/destoryed when Kera has the WW leveled...maybe using the Tear to do it after lifting ToV intot he air with it. Draazak steals the tear, dies in CS. the Crusaders preprare to leave to join the fight, Grendish literally baskstabs two of them and engages with the last one. perhaps making a deal with Dozekar or even Kera himself before his retreat.

    as we only know Kera left...we don't know if he had some communication with Grendish before or during that retreat...could be Grendish has always been a Kera follower...and this was the perfect time to show his true colors, and gain major points with the Awakened.
  19. Meirril Well-Known Member

    From what I've gathered I think your timetable is way, way off.

    Kerafyrm's first attack (the one Yelnik and other dragons survive due to the Crusader's intervention) was over 500 years ago during EQ1. Not after it, but as a scripted event that happened on almost every server where the newly awakened Sleeper goes around and kills every dragon in Skyshrine, then Temple and finally ending after a rampage through Veeshan's Peak in which he (fails to) slay every dragon.

    That is the attack Yelnik talks to us about, and the reason we say in this conversation that we're surprised he is alive...because we could of herd about his defeat before contact with Vellious was lost between EQ1 and EQ2.

    The entire attack on Skyshrine was very light on Awakened Cult dragons. It was mostly Drakes, Wyvern and Droag with lots of bone golems and very few actual dragons. When we find the crusaders in the Underdepths the quest updates indicate that they fell to multiple wounds and attackers. Apparently the Drakes were very effective in large numbers against their larger and more powerful cousins. perhaps because Grendish prevented them from seeking assistance from the other dragons. We do know that Grendish betrayed the Crusaders because a surviving members announced that to the zone. His reward was the freeing of his Father from the Halls of Testing and Dozekar came to join him immediately.

    The most likely scenario is Grendish was chosen as a Crusader and then convinced by Awakened Cultists during Kera's absence to join the Awakened. Maybe convincing him that Dozekar was his father was part of the plot. Considering that dragon eggs were held in a common hatchery in North ToV...it is possible. Or it would also be possible to convince him that his father was Dozekar even if this was a lie. Anything to sway a crusader into betraying the rest and eliminating the biggest threat to Kerafyrm on Norrath.
  20. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    I don't recall anywhere that Dozekar was ever reffered to as Grendish's father, nor do I see how that is possible, since we know Doze was Kera's dad and was 'cursed' and put in the Hall of Testing as punishment. how he'd be able to father a kid as young as Grendish is beyond me, also they tell you that the original Warders are their parents. they were trained to to take over as the new Warders, until Kera got loose then they decided to train them to be the Crusaders to kill Kera rather then imprison him. Yelinak tells us that.

    I don't think in EQ2 that Kera woke during Velious. I think our reasoning that 'Yelinak was dead' was Velious was assumed, via the book of destiny, to have melted which is why there was global flooding/impassable seas. that would indicated everything on Velious was dead. including the dragons. I don't think even the Awakened would be able to keep a seige going for 500+ years. or that Kera would wait 500+ years to attack ToV or reassault Skyshrine.

    and none of the other dragons, other then Yelniak, talk about even fighting Kera. it's never mentioned with Harla/Woushi/Lendaria none of them mention it. you'd think Woushi would mention getting a beating from Kera on his way to Skyshrine. kind of a big deal and we talk to several dragons that would been in the way during the time of EQ1 velious that have no mention of him.

    thats why I think in EQ2, we never set him loose, and that the Rending more then likely broke the tomb/containment. which is why in EQ2 the tomb is in a giant sinkhole. the Rending probably caused it to collpase/sinkhole to open, and either disrupted the spell or even killed one or more of the Warders, letting Kera loose and after blasting his way out of the tomb, he made a beeline for Skyshrine, fought Yelinak to near death.
    that's why Woushi doesn't mention a fight, because he was in Lesser fay, not the Wakening Lands at that time. and why he never got as far as VP, cause the Crusaders showed up at Skyshrine and he makes a tactical retreat since even though he was tough enough to beat Yelinak to near dead, he couldn't take all 4 Crusaders on at the same time due to centuries of imprisonment.

    if we go by EQ1, and say that Keraq goes on a rampage and beat every dragon near dead, then why would Vyemn, Goirenaire, Talendor, or Harla Dar even be approached to form the awakened cult in KoS? why would Harla talk about her encounter with Kera coming under very apparently friendly terms...you'd think she'd remember getting the snot beat out of her first.

    in fact she mentions that she basically laid down to wait for death when Kera approaches her on Velious when she was part of CoV. doesn't sound like a Kera that went on a bloody rampage killing/beating all dragons in his path. 550 years ago.