Tunare Is Dead

Discussion in 'History and Lore 2' started by Glinda, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. Glinda New Member

    For those who feel Tunare deserves to maintain an active existence in the Everquest Universe, I would recommend you visit the official Everquest Next forums. They recently announced that Tunare got killed by a group of chaos magic monsters.

    Tunare created the good elves of Norrath and considered Firiona Vie to be her finest creation. Such an iconic goddess deserves better than to die to a roving band of nameless chaos magic monsters. Let SOE know you want to see Tunare written back into the active lore of Norrath!

  2. Estred Well-Known Member

    Well given EQN is entirely before all of EQ1 and EQ2 by ages, I would suspect that eventually Tunare would be revived since she is not dead in EQ1 or 2 (granted EQ2 is a different timeline from EQ1 due to the Planes of Power acts when Norrathians invaded the Plane of Time) That is unless they want to canonically break EQN from traditional Norrath by redoing the gods and races which they seem to be doing. If that is case I would kindly ask them to reconsider the idea of setting EQN in "Norrath" instead of creating a new fantasy world with its own lore.

    Why does it have to be Norrath? Could it not be a brand NEW world for us to enjoy/explore/quest/build in?
  3. oldskool Active Member

    SInce EQNext is a re-imagining of the EQ Universe - none of the lore or history has any weight or meaning.

    Sometimes, its best to kill the sacred cows.
    Estred, konofo and Feldon like this.
  4. Lovestar Active Member

    But that story is cool and a nice way to make Kithicor super-creepy in a new way.

    If you cut+paste the same lore into every game, no one cares after a while because there's no surprises left and nothing to discover.
  5. Kosh New Member

    I could see maybe if the death had some sort of special meaning. Like she sacrificed herself so that her precious elves could continue to live or something epic like that. Just seems like it was presented as an afterthought.

    I was very much hoping to again be a Tunarian Druid.

    The entire Everquest Next design does not seem to be capturing much excitement. Seems to be targeted for children using their PS4 platform. Just look at the graphics and what has been reported to be more and of action based mmo instead of an mmorpg. I think I'll pass and give another studio my time and money.
  6. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    Eq not gets less appealing all the time. Every time I think they hit rock bottom, they whip out a mining drill and go to new depths of tropes and trying-to-hard.

    Why not call it some other name? Smushing the eq and eq2 lore in a blender and whipping it around and around does not make sense, not is it quaint, and it's about thisclose to just being outright stupid.
    Malleria likes this.
  7. Talitha New Member

    Very odd that they would trash Tunare. Going to totally avoid EQ Next.
  8. Meirril Well-Known Member

    EQNext is its own world. Its own story. Let them be.
  9. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    the real kicker to it is that apparently she was killed by just a 'horde' of 'chaos monsters' that also decimated the Dragons. called the Raveneer. never mind the elves kept the dragons at bay with 'High Magic'.

    this smacks of someone saying 'people won't take the Raveneer' threat seriously if elves could beat the dragons, adn they are supposed to be our new 'super baddies'...so lets have them kill a god.' 'which god?' 'what god do most people like?' 'well there's Inny, there's Rallos..there's Tunare...' 'Oh lets kill her! that'll piss off/upset the most people!'
  10. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    Agreed 110%.

    Let's add a bit of trope-angst, hmmm.... what'll really get em? Ahh, Tunare must die! It'll be like Bambi's mom, killed by 'random bad entity', cause nothing unites a player base by murdering the mother (of all)
  11. Rotherian Well-Known Member

    No offense intended toward either of you, but there is absolutely no logical reason that an alternate version of Norrath should keep the same deities alive (or dead for that matter). In EQ2's Norrath, Rallos Zek is dead. In EQ's Norrath Cazic Thule is dead. And apparently, in EQN's Norrath, Tunare is dead.

    Getting mad about that is essentially like saying that it is fine for evil-aligned deities to die, but good-aligned deities are sacrosanct. That isn't a logically defensible position to take.

    You are certainly allowed to feel emotions about this, but let's not pretend that the position that you (and others) are taking as a result of those emotions is in any way based upon reason. o_O
    Lodrelhai and Avahlynn like this.
  12. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    <3 Oh gosh, honey, I'm not offended or angry in the least. :) I don't feel 'deep emotions' about it as much as it feels like ugh, like a (bad) play for angst, if that makes sense? And from what we know (and I'm sure all is subject to change) it's some off screen death, la dee da weirdness. (At least when Firiona V gets her butt kicked we see it.) And I actually giggle every time I see her croak in Antonica. Every single time. That scene is my precious.

    So I'm not asking for the pretty princess story line, where no 'good' guys bite the bullet ever.

    They can (and shall) write whatever they want, but when you have a following and fandom that spans over a decade, I think it's not too much to ask that going forward things don't write in ways that tap dance over the trying-to-hard line, and into trope village.
  13. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I think the word "trope" is being thrown around here too much. It would be a "trope" if Tunare was killed to make a bad guy look more bad. It would be a "trope" if the pathanon was exactly the same as when EQ1 started. No matter what gets done its going to be easily called a "trope" so lets get off the "trope" train to "trope" town and stop overusing that word.

    The Next team is trying to make their own history. Deciding to cut a deity (literally?) is a way to do that. I'm surprised to hear they moved away from the dragons being the big bad guys and towards using...chaos monsters? (don't you mean Discord?) But you know, whatever.

    It. is. a. story. Let them actually get to a point where they are happy with it and they are going to release it. One thing I really, really hate is attempts to stifle creative writing because its going to upset the fan base. While SoE writers aren't George RR Martin, take Game of Thrones for example. The fans are constantly upset over favored characters getting the axe (sword, arrow, poison, ect) and other "bad things" happening to them. Yet, it moves the story along and it makes the story interesting.

    I think it would of been more interesting to save the Chaos Monsters for the first expansion and have them kill Tunare as part of the opener. The impact of her death would be felt a lot more if Tunare directly helped the players early on and then was killed. But its not my story. Again, let the Next team work it till they are happy and then see if you agree. If not, they failed and they don't get your business. Its ok to let them fail. Bold moves require risk.
  14. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    most of the hatred for the idea is exactly that. people don't mind a 'good' deity biting the dust, but the fact they chose the most, if not second most, popular good deity(I think Tunare and Erollisi vie for that top spot constantly), and then had her killed by some 'horde' of creatures who's ONLY claim to fame at this point is a devastating war against the Dragons. (which the Raveneer LOST)

    granted, Dragons are powerful, and to take out a huge amount of them is a feat, but they also basically weakened the stature of the Dragons by giving the Dal empire 'high magic' that scared them into a treaty/pact. so a mortal race could best the dragons. not just best, but SCARED them with the idea that a mortal race had access to 'High Magic'.

    so the Raveneer threat at that point seemed like Raveneer >/= Dragon in terms of power.

    now out of the blue, in order to make the new 'super villian' of EQN...they up their power to God killing levels. not an avatar, but a fully empowered diety.

    Okay fine. But rather then kill like say, Karana, or Prexus, or some good diety alot of folks know and would be shocked by in a OMG they killed a GOD!? manner, they chose the most iconic of the good dieties, and it smacks of them doing it solely to piss people off/build up angst. like she was picked primaily to in essence build up hype because of how pissed people would get.

    and I am not liking the new Kithicor story. basically in EQN, from what we gather, Tunare's 'last stand' was at Kithicor against this Raveneer horde, and her death/blood pouring into the ground, combined with Raveneer chaos magics, gave Kithicor it's 'undead curse'.

    it loses some of it's allure I think in the idea that the curse is in essence a 'side effect' of a god dying there, rather then a deliberate act of hate/aggression/malice. that was part of what made Kithicor so intimidating, was this was a showcase of what a god could do if you pissed one off enough.
  15. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    I said it twice. You used it half a dozen times. So...yeahhh. That read as kinda snarky. With that, I'll bow out, so as not to over use any more words.
    Loredena likes this.
  16. Rotherian Well-Known Member

    I don't see it as such. I see it as nothing more than they've done in EQ and EQ2, just with a different deity. All I'm gathering from it being Tunare, instead of one of the others, is that there are no "sacred cows" in the various versions of Norrath.

    And we kind of knew that something like this would need to occur, since Erolissi's portfolio has included Nature since they released the names of the deities that will appear in EQN during on of the past SOE Live panels (I think it was 2013, but it may have been 2012). Given that Nature has been under Erolissi's domain since then (and I haven't seen anything stating that Tunare was ever planned for inclusion in the pantheon during the time period when EQN takes place), there couldn't also be a Tunare at the same time, so either (a) Tunare would have never come to exist in EQN's Norrath or (b) Tunare would have to be destroyed in some manner in order for Erolissi to have assumed control over the domain of nature.
  17. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    there was no Tunare in EqN at first. people got annoyed, but were fine with her being 'around' potentially though not present. there's no Cazic, no bertox, no rallos, no inny, no bristlebane, or rodcet or quellious. leaving the two most iconic gods, Tunare for the good guys, Inny for the bad guys, in the 'ether' so to speak, is fine and dandy. never introduce them if you want, that's alright, they'll just become 'wish list' deities like Erollisi was for years.

    but killing Tunare off by a horde of Chaos monsters, (which is exactly how the Ravener are described) smacks to me of less a good story, and more a marketing ploy to generate buzz/hype about a iconic death.

    it's like them having Firionia Vie murdered by an Orc pawn.
    Loredena likes this.
  18. Lovestar Active Member

    I would pay an access fee to EQNext just to watch this cutscene.
  19. Rotherian Well-Known Member

    It depends. Have we seen the complete story yet, or is all we have to go on a short blurb of a few sentences?

    If you really think about it, some of the most riveting sagas (both in movies and in books) can seem less so when boiled down to one or two sentences. The Lord of the Rings is, in essence, a story of a multiracial group that embarks upon a quest to destroy jewelry. The Hobbit is about someone that gets bored and leaves home to hang out with folks that he just met. Dune is about desert dwellers that consume mind-altering substances. The saga of Drizzt Do'Urden is about someone that leaves home because he doesn't quite fit in with the society into which he was born. Ender's Game is about a kid that kills one of his classmates and eventually winds up killing almost every member of a species.

    Those stories are way more than the short blurbs convey. It is equally likely that being killed "by a horde of Chaos monsters" significantly understates the case for the story of Tunare's death.
  20. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    this is what we know about the Ravener:

    they are a species born of Chaos, they waged a huge war or series of wars on/against Norrath. the Dragon race was decimated to a fraction of it's number, but they were eventually defeated/driven back.
    the other thing we know is that they murdered Tunare in Kithicor Forest, and thier magics and her blood 'cursed' the ground causing Kithicor to be the undead place we're familiar with. but it's not stated as an act they did on purpose, but more like an accidental side effect.

    here's what we know about the Dragons:

    They are just as powerful as they are in Eq1/Eq2 individually. however they were scared to death of the Dal Empire's mastery of 'High Magic' to the point that they were forced into a basic non-aggression pact, that they only broke after the elves lost their use of High Magic, (the Dragon Wars) and even then Yelinak was reluctant to start the conflict. and was manipulated into it by Jaled Dar and Ithosiar and by a semi-liched/undead cursed Zlandicar (it's almost hinted that what happened to Zlandicar was actually done by Jaled Dar or Itho as a means to spark the conflict they want)

    Now Moorgard came and said that several Seraphs/countless mortals/most the dragons were killed, and that the Seraphs were weaker/still adjusting/learning their powers. which to me sounded like a cop out. a 'oh you hate we murdered Tunare...but don't worry, we killed other gods too! it's not just her!' and 'well she's a Goddess...um...but she was a kiddie as far as knowing what she was capable of and thus vulnerable'

    I think it was done specifically to show how 'threatening' the Ravener were/are, and the God they chose, imo, was picked precisely to make people pissed and angry and to generate buzz over it.

    it still sounds that a race that lost to the dragons, shouldn't have been able to kill Tunare, or any god for that matter.