All Warlocks are in serious jeopardy of not having any end game value when matched against other classes. As it stands now WE are T2 DPS with spikes to T1 on AE encounters, but always fall behind Conjurors and Necros. We would like 1 of the following. 1. More DPS (Only a Wizard, Assassin and Ranger should have the ability when played to the top level of play to ever beat a Warlock on DPS on any given encounter). Rangers and Assassin should only pass us on the encounters that last longer then our mana pool. This means while we have mana we should be blowing away even these classes. 2. Be given the same Utility given to Necros and Conjuror's this includes group int buff, FD, heal, COH, Res and group Stamina/Mitgation buff's. You can split these abilities between Warlocks and Wizards as you see fit. Next since a pet is a guarented set of hitpoints that can be placed between a mob and themselfs give us a ward that will take and equal amount of damage to that of the hit points of their Tank pet. We would also like this ward to cause us to loose hate everytime the ward abosorbs damage. This hate loss should be equal to the necro and conjuror's pet taunting abilty per second. Next we should be given a ward heal spell that will alow us to replentish the life of this ward as the same rate of the necro/conjuror pet heal spell. And lastly we would also like to never run out of mana.. We will take and excact replica of lich to achieve this. Thanks, End Game Warlocks
I almost completely agree with you, i am also a lvl 70 warlock and am also in a raiding guild. the first night we raided i think it was labortory. well not to my surprise it wasnt pretty. I dont know if it was just that zone or what but even the bruisers and monks were outdpsing wizards and warlocks on given encounters and on a group encounter the conjuror topped 200k dmg. now i dont know if it was just me but i had to fight tooth and nail to make that parse and i know the wizards were doing the same (but in a lot of cases still outdpsing me) though i dont think we should get a ward or anything to make us like the necros and conjurors (because i think that makes them unique). as to the the hate loss we have our laughable concussive spell, its not much but it is something. I do however, think we should get something to compensate for our ridiculus lack of utilities. I dont know about yall but i hate our ancient teachings, i think they suck. Dark Infestation is good but the pets always seem to be broken lol and as for Null carress it is good for saving your healer or tank if they are about to fall but it is very iffy. The redeeming side to it in my opinion though is that they are trying to maintain a sense of differentness in the classes and i like that. I just think that we got the raw end of the deal on it. i would love a new a new self buff instead of the seal of dark rumination and id love new ancient teachings and utilities but i honestly wouldnt want them at the expense of being just like the other casters. I think we "deserve" some new utilities but res and evac and coh? i wouldnt want them. i think that they got the better deal because these were all taken from eq1. necros could res mages could coh and wizards could evac, but when they got to warlocks and they couldnt take anything from eq1 so they were like hmmmmmm lets just give them nothing since they didnt exist and had nothing in eq1. I just am thankful that i am in a very strong raiding guild and i already got in before they found out warlocks are less endowed then the other mages and are extremely situational to the raids. But as for new warlocks i feel bad for them because if i was an officer in a raiding guild, you better believe id take the rangers over a warlock app any day. Great post Modean,
Screw the utility - I do NOT want more utility. Its bad enoguh as it is having all these buffs that we already have. I miss EQ1 Wizard playstyle - all buffs were self-only, ALL other spells were damage spells. (not counting ports) I'd trade in Nihilism, Venomous Runes and Boon of the Damned (those 3 spell lines, not those 3 specific spells) for better damage, aggro, or efficiency. As for more DPS... I dont think more raw DPS is what we need. I think what we need is realistic aggro management (dont even bring up that fluff spell Concussive, or the -2.5% hate generation from the 1h wand familiar), and increased efficiency. I see Scouts of all kinds spamming their attacks all day long and never running out of power, but I burn through up to 40% power per fight (with 6600 pool at L65).
I would like to add another point of view where i think the warlock class is lacking Is after LU13 we were changed to a AE class, we do alot of damage to AE (my warlock was lev 31 pre LU13, my Warlock is currently 64) I do not mind this, i love doing alot of damage to AE and no other class can touch us but........ To do AE damage we need 2 things, a tank to hold agro- a rare thing to find and we need some form of deagro that works on AE as we are a AE dps class i feel it was something that was left out or forgot about. SOE did make a chance and gave us concusive deagro that works well but on SINGLE target shouldn't a Wizard and warlock get slightly different forms of deagro? as one class is single target focus and other AE focused. I do not want SOE to do nothing and expect us to fix our selves by using the deagro ablities from our AA lines so we can max out 10% deagro, we can hit a single mob to deagro, we have concussive for single target but not even in our AA lines did we get a deagro AE spell. Please devs think about giving us somthing like a fury deagro that is AE based and very effective to save a furies [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], as they can pull huge amounts of agro I have 67 Fury and on tuff raids i am always very high on agro list. I have alway considered a Fury to be like a brother to a Warlock with the AE damage ablities. please give us some form of AE deagro Nukette 64 Warlock Taylon 67 Fury Najena
Root of the problem is casting times. in an XP group by the time i get 1 spell to go off, the mob is either dead or i contributed the last 5% of its health, as the scouts already ripped a good chunk of HP off with 8 .5 sec casts b4 we can get off the 4 second apocalypse that will end up doing 1 tick for a measely 900 average b4 the mob dies. This factors into raiding the same way the 3 single target spells we end up castin + Poison debuff, Nethros realm and Aura to maxamize our weak dps takes a outstanding 12 seconds to cast for a average of 4500 damage. Do you know how many .5 second combat arts that is? thats my friends is 24 combat arts, I know no one has that many spells but the reality of the situation comes down to a Scout can spam all there spells before having to wait for recast timers by the time we are done debuffing the mob in half that time, we can only get off 3 debuffs/procs. The most common answer to this from the majority........ You should be stacking DOTS while nuking on a raid, Well this is what we do then we have 4 spells going at the same time, we just generated thice the hate the tank can possibly put out in the duration of a fight against a raid mob, let alone the raid mob has prolly stun stifled or interupted the tank 10 times by now, we turn mob, Frontal goes off, healers are dead, guild yells, next 30 fights your to sour to try that again then you come to the forums begging developers to give us a deaggro. Not done yet, you get no responce from any developer what so ever even after all the complaints that have been going since LU13, you start to feel your class is abandoned, knowing that 1 day it will be fixed cuz sooner or later everything thats broken gets fixed just some stuff are more important then others i guess. So what do you do? You figure we suck as a class cause our dps is rotten, and Develepoment refuses to fix it, so you try to compromise and negotiate, "Fine, leave our dps as is, just give me some utility" which is just a rotten thing to ask for. Then what??? You see that rangers recived immedeate attention and not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4 but "5" of there combat arts are fixed in 1 live update, Why you ask? cause they cried like little babies on the forums and bumped there posts to oblivion til a developer just gave in... What happens to Warlocks? A spark of hope that someone will finally fix us, which leads to posts like this. All in all it's not just one problem it is many. it is Damage amount in raids vs risk? sure we can put out alot of dps on group mobs, hell we have 4 AE's we can cast, problem is the tank has only 1 ae taunt. This isnt good damage its a way to wipe a raid. This suicide bomber mission does not make up for what we lack in Power vs long fights, Single target damage, fast cating times to short and quick fights, terrible debuffs that draw a whole lot of unneeded aggro, we are certainly not the macguyvers of EQ, we have no ability to adjust to the fight, if it's a group of mobs were the suicide bombers. anything else, were just there to watch the show. Then to top it off we have no utility what so ever, we do nothing, we can invis 1 person to a safe spot, thats about as useful as we can get. Just to cut off any future rebuttles about AA's to my comment. Conccusive balsts = Broken Catalyst = A faster way to die Reduced casting time AA's = a whopping .2 seconds off Rift our longest cast making it 4.8 cast, throw in a bard with allegro you can now cast the longest spell you have with the best % reduced from it in 4.6 seconds instead of 5. And even if these get fixed... guess what? take away the AA's from any other DPS class and we arent on PAR. What i suggest to any eyes watching (developers), take a moment play the class in different situation, on diffrent encounters. XP with Brigands Brawlers and Predators. fight some Heroics and see how well you do on whatever parser you do in whatever aspect of the game, Debuffs/roots/damage. Raid with any class, have your gaurdian fight a group of mobs, cast apocalypse and cast while it's ticking to try to out damage a dam summoner. See how well that goes. Wait... Fight a single target in a raid. go all out, hell even cheat and give yourself master 2's and buff all your gear and stats. make yourself the best possible Warlock you can... go all out break a sweat... Compare your parse to other classes, see if the developer doesn't get on the dam forums with us and beg for a fix them self. -Lower the casting times -Make a working passive deaggro or one that doesn't require you to do damage adding more aggro then what you started with. -Up damage on DoT's, takes long to cast em and even longer for the full potential of the damage to actually finish. -Recasts times are ok. Dont play with those -Do not need Utility we didn't make a Sorc to feed maan or evac, we made it to blow stuff up. But so far since LU13 I think the only splls you managed to get right on my Hotbar is our Invis and our HO starter Thanks.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above, but unfortunately all of these issues have been around since LU13 with no indication that the Devs are even thinking of fixing them. And yes, I find it EXTREMELY aggravating to watch the swift fixes to Rangers after their LU20 nerf, posts from Lockeye on their forum and general feedback from the devs while we continue to get a big fat nothing, not even a 'we are looking at it' from the Devs. The only conclusion I can come to is that in the bizarre alternate reality that the Devs live in, Sorcerer's are where they want them to be, so no need to fix what ain't broken. Errr..not.
I really hope you will all soon come to realize what i did in DoF beta, something which is even more obvious now. THE DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE WARLOCK CLASS !! The only time warlocks ever got some serious attention, was when everyone else was complaining how powerful they were. SOE rarely (if ever) responds to the genuine concerns in this class forum, and they i've never seen them comment on these. Forget the class ever existed and reroll a melee class. The best melee weapons from this expansion has yet to be discovered, and thrust me when they do, every caster will pale in dps comparison. Burst or Sustained wont matter - it was so in eq1 and it seems they have continued this trend.
Sorcer AA lines suck. This is a serious problem. We get a spell which allows us to not even get double damage on 1 spell per minute. Other professions get AAs which give much greater bonuses to combat speed. (reference: Chronosiphoning, Perpetuality, Savant's insight, Volitile Magic, Dragoon's Cyclone, Gladiator's Finesse, Double Attack, ...) it wont be long before people really start to pick up on this all over in the game. Our spell casting times are higher than other professions spells with similar effects. (2 second nukes vs scouts 1 second nuke, AE spells with 4 second cast times vs other professions similar AE with 2 second cast time.) I think a lot could come out of reducing cast timers and recast timers on heavier spells. As long as agro management works as it does, warlocks will never be tier 1 in a raid force. Nerfing other professions will not raise the amount of damage a warlock can do before they gain agro. Unlike zerks and scouts, warlocks don't normally live thru a single blow by any level epic 4x. Our pillaging and desolation lines need some help. For starters pillaging should give enough mana per tick to cover the mana cost for at least the most basic taunt in that tier. Ad3 pillaging gives 23 mana per tick over 13 ticks? Power drain is a joke. Only a rare few names actually use thier power pool. Curse of Emptiness / Curse of Desolation - these spells are an absolute joke. the only uses I can figure for them are : 1) gaining two nil crystals on a kill. 2) Power leveling a character who gains xp for level 17-24 creatures. VIrulent Grasp should be castable across groups in a raid. Boon of the Damned/Shadowed... compare this spell to the wizard version. Both are 10% to proc. Warlock's get power drain (see above.) Wizard Concurrance gives power instantly, warlock's gives power over time. consider ad3 versions of both from tier 4 : The wizard concurance is expected to give 7.6 power to the person with the buff for each hit. The warlock boon lasts 16 seconds, it doesn't stack. and the expectation is to get 1.8 power from proc every 4 seconds. say creature is attacking once per second. Boon on wizard is expected to give 129.2 power, the warlock version gives 90 to the MT.
I agree with every complaint in this post. I remember when I could out dps pur Swashy regularly in grp and now I have no chance of touchin him unless it is a huge area encounter. Thiis is very aggravating and to the point where I have started other toons trying to get the enjoyment I once had with him. The casting times and low dps on single targets are outrageous and pathetic. We, us paying customers, would really appreciate it if you would take 2 secs to look at our complaining. If you wear a robe and have no pet you should top the dps line, period.... Not to mention our roots, what a joke, and I have Masters. Tarod 66 Warlock of the Crimson Stalkers
I compleatly 100% DISAGREE with all of you. T1 dps is fine at t1 dps, summoners are getting the nerfbat with the next live update. I dont feel that there needs to be any changes to dps (except with bringing back up to par - but thats a diffrent topic). Any t1 dps can still surpass all others, even as a ranger I would be happy if I were left as is simply because I can catchup most of the time. I dont have to be the best. If you really feel there needs to be changes made, perhaps you should be more specific as to what abilities you feel should be changed, how much mob resists compare to melee, that sort of thing. Keeping the posts positive and informitive also helps, going on a doomsayer spree just makes most people look down on you.
Like I said in the past, if you wear paper armor, you should be able to do the most damage. Check out some movies for example, the mage does the greatest amount of damage, nt the warrior or archer. Play a warlock and then come back and let us know what you think. When we run out of mana we don't do damage period!!!
I am going to murder the next person who says this. And I have myself a low level wizard and have myself just a FINE time, its just a diffrent style of playing than my ranger. A wizzard has ways to keep him from being hit, so do warlocks. Preds dont have these abilities, so the mitigation is necessary. "Like I said in the past, if you wear paper armor, you should be able to do the most damage" Arragance at its worst there, you want your cake and eat it too.. Hell, with my miniwizard, give me 100 hp, let me keep all my abilities and im happy. Simply because I know I dont need to take a hit. This is not a condscending responce, simply the way I play my wizard.
As a 70 Raiding Warlock - I could care less on utility spells, I consider T1 DPS utility. So taking that into consideration i feel our class deserves some attention... We have be dwindling down farther and farther on the dps chain, last night raiding I was being out parsed by Wizards (yes they are now t1), Assassins, Conj/necs, Swash/brigs, haha even monks at some given points... Now i know the DEV's cant say this is working as intended this time.. One big concern i have, is our agro we acquire on mobs, i can be averaging say 500 dps, and pull agro while the conj is 1000k+ dps not pulling agro what so ever. Yes groups are set up properly, yes the casters have buffs for agro reduction... b4 thats anyones next question... its just a matter of we get to much hate period.. if not by the mobs, but by the dev's lack of responces. Things I think that should be considered... 1) Netherous Realm - this spell I would like to see tick on our dots also, they are poison and disease based. Also this spell doesnt proc on all our poison/disease spells either. 2) Dark Infestation - in a group/raid with other warlocks our spell does not stack, we can only have one set of broodlings out at a time, would like this fixed. 3) Apocalypse - Would like to see the margin of ticks 763-1416 difference of 653 for margin of error... so ticking on the low side is 13,060 dmg (if 5 mob encounter) there is a 15k dmg difference if we tick high, Now i would like to see the margin of error reduced from like 1050-1416 this would help increase our dps. Ohh numbers are from master 1. 4) Rift - the current dmg i would like to see increased also, and the margin of error lowered.. as is 2934 - 4890. Would like to see numbers like 5000k - 6500 dmg.. Why not its a 3 mins recast.. Wizards get a 10k. even though wizards is only 3 targets... On raid mobs, you usually get 1 target maybe 3 total... together at the most... now with there fusion and ice nova, thats a hello'lotta dmg.. and yes with the 3 mins people are goin to wait till the wizards have there fusion up. Pretty much on all our nukes would like to see the margin of error (low hit vs. high hit) reduced... leaving the high end and narrowing the low, (dont want another nerf) We are level 70 now, the other classes dmg numbers have increased by alot, and i have yet to see a drastic change to our class... I remember when DoF was in beta and the numbers were released... that actually showed people looking into our classes and doin right by us... then someone complained... (as i am now) and we got the NERF bat hard... our dps droppppppped alot... we worked with it.. sayin well our big nukes were all t5 so next expansion (KoS) we should be good again... guess what, I was wrong... we are a class lacking there of.. If they actually asked the raid guilds if warlocks got a shaft, they would say yes.. the dps is down, the agro from the mobs is unreal, the Concussive spell we have doesnt do squat... hummm I use that spell, deagro robe, troub in group and i still pull b4 anyone else.. Yes our tank has all his taunts M1 or M2.. We seriously need looking into badly..
Faster cast times on all spells. Long overdue. Better root duration, less chance to break, especially the grasp line of spells. ( let the pendulum swing back a bit )
Also, did anyone else notice that there Devastation was nerfed a lil bit, I would hit for around 1100 - 1200 at times. Since the expansion I've hit for a whopping 950 at best. As for scouts not getting any any deaggro spells, some of them get to cast their hate on others in their grp..... Tarod 66 Warlock Crimson Stalkers
I Agree with the OP, I have been playing a warlock now since November 2004 and am also lvl 70 and in a raid guild and have been getting out DPS'ed by most of the melee classes, it seems as if we are now T2 and thats a slap in the face, even worse is the lack of response from the devs, we are now second choice for raids, why would you coose a warlock when all they seem to be good at now is pulling aggro and dying ever 2 min. when you could have a monk/assasin/ranger who now do more DPS consistantly with less aggro, our roll in KOS seems to be lost and I am worried for our class if nothing changes Message Edited by Mystophosies01 on 03-14-200610:00 AM Message Edited by Mystophosies01 on 03-14-200610:01 AM
No - NO UTILITY PLEASE. I do not want utility I do not want to BE a utility class and I couldn't care less about evac / coh / mezz / whatever. No no no. NO. Increase our energy siphon / transfer ratios. Increase the potency of Grasp / Nihilstics. That is IT for utility. All I ever care to have of that. Nuff said. I think our DPS is in line and I don't think it's any secret that summoners need a nerf - judging from the there-they-are-there-there-they-aren't Test Update notes. Take care of the imbalance in other classes and I think we will be sitting right where we should be. But PLEASE. No utility. I do not want to be just-another-mage-one-same-as-another.
Araxes, I'm sorry to say, but doesnt seem like you have to much raid experience, in a group warlocks are ok... but to speak from a point of view on a raid stand point, our DPS is not in line whatsoever, NOT EVEN CLOSE!.... A nerf to other classes is not what we need, we need a balance... most of these mobs were designed with the current dps as it was intended... that was b4 the ranger nerf, and next the conj nerf, what that is goin to do is cause more problems for the people raiding, someone has to pick up that dps. As i stated b4, assassins come in 1st, 2nd conj, 3rd Wizards (now), 4th Brigs, 5th and 6th are between warlocks and monks believe it or not, warlocks comming out ahead by a lil most of the time.... that data was over several raids, and 3 different warlocks in the guild. Anyways our class is hurting, and hurtin bad..
