The official WIZARD Changes........ I think you guys will like what you see....

boy you people just love to flame others opinions lol i thnk you want an EQLive wizard but i could care less. matter of fact i don't think you even read the whole thread. i said i dont' mind it going this way but i'd perfer it not to. we are the new kings in this gam eyou can take that to the bank ennis. but look at the world around you for once instead of just looking at our class.

and by the way you don't know me so don't even think i havent mastered a wizard in EQLive or this game. i just have a matter of opinion on where this should go.
Message Edited by Articulas on 02-11-2005 08:29 AM

Look in the mirror if you want to see flamage. You are the one who is flaming anyone who doesn't agree with you. You want to sit there and bang away at the big nuke button all day without any consequences for your actions. You want it too easy. I don't.

And I highly doubt you mastered playing an EQ1 Wizard judging by your comments. In fact I would imagine you had a great reputation for being either an overburner or one who had no clue as to handle aggro management that you sat on your a&& for half the fight afraid to nuke.

you know what ennis- i apologize. i just went back over the thread and my attitude has been flaming myself. i should not have resorted to that and i want to apologize to you for that. and to the others i have flamed.

actually i had a great reputation for sitting there most of the time staring at the mob and nuking only when it got below 50%.

EDIT: and it wasn't because of i was scared of aggro, it was because i had to conserve a small power pool of about 4K, even with mana regean +5 it wasn't keeping with the others i was grouping with. matter of fact the group i normally grouped with the only crowd control we had was me and a Necro. so aggro was my friend many times.
Message Edited by Articulas on 02-11-2005 09:27 AM

Ennis and Art, you're both are smart people. Can we reach some accord on this? I understand both views, and I think you two are just missing each others point of view a little bit.

There does need to be challenge to the game. Wizards haven't seen an aggro problem before this because not only did tanks have ways to hold aggro, they also out damaged wizards. So with more damage and hate increasing spells, us wizard haven't had to watch our nuking before. Upping our damage returns that risk factor, and makes for a challenging game.

Tanks need to be able to hold, maintain and recapture aggro. If our damage so out strips thier ability to do so, then what will happen over time, is wizards having to hold back thier true power, for fear of a death. If this happens, when will a wizard ever be able to fully unleash his awesoma powa?

You both have excellent points, neither of you are asking for an easy game, or for someone else to do your work for you.

There is little unity on ideas in this forum. There are many people that come here simply to attack others for personal reasons regardless of what they have to say.

I've always looked at you two as level headed. You both have posted good advice and ideas. I hate to see this kind of fighting.

The edits where for typos. Even though this keyboard is new, it seems to miss keys when typing. Macs, go figure.

Message Edited by Stavenham on 02-11-2005 07:42 AM
Message Edited by Stavenham on 02-11-2005 07:43 AM
Message Edited by Stavenham on 02-11-2005 07:44 AM

I think it says a lot that these changes have turned Ennis's attitude around...I remember her being pretty cheesed off a few weeks ago about wizards in general.

and they are good changes marcalus

staven, i've been a bit brash in this thread more so than usual. and its not the wizard changes that have done it, its the mount and tradeskill changes coming up that has me in a sour mood. i should not have let that slip in the wizard forums but i did and whats done is done. i apologized to Ennis and if she wants me to do it 3 or 4 more times i will, i went over board on a few of my comments on this thread. its just taken me a few days to get used to the coming changes

but yeesh dont' ever think i'm knocking the wizard changes those are a godsend

Haha thats the best reply i have ever seen. I totally agree with everything ark has been saying. Yesterday I saw a scout start whining and crying cause they kept dieing because he kept taking aggro...being a EQL vet (3 years playing) I told him to manage his aggro, and he replyed I shouldnt have to, I couldnt stop laughing in RL and even though its hard for me to get a group I decided to leave.

With these new changes I am also glad that ark made a point to mention this
"We are getting our power. This is what separates the true Wizards from the button mashers."
Im thinking of making that my new signature... its true and its something I had to learn in EQL, Im glad im going to learn it here again (after dieing a lot im sure). Now though, I will be able to make a name for myself and I will have a group. I have already done that since even without this patch, i push out good dmg and am able to feed and buff (just cant type while doing it... feel like a EQL bard just to be able to keep up with a scouts and fighters dps.../sigh, sometimes priests), now I dont do great dmg but i make my usual groups are happy enough to keep me around, maybe its pity, but soon it wont be.
As for aggro, I am not going to go find the quote but its in the update notes for feb 9th, moorguard did write taunt will be more effective... I sure hope it doesnt keep all the aggro to the tank though, people need to develop their skill and not just press buttons, otherwise this game is more a super mario bros. then a strategy game.
Now you may not agree with me or not, but there is one thing we can all be sure of... he should have added a little more cow bell.
Aaddr Aequitas - 45 Wizard - Officer of The Downward Spiral
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=114944113

doubled, my appologies... im tired =p
Message Edited by Aaddr on 02-11-2005 08:04 AM

I can see the changes to tradeskills as harsh for someone that was really into them. A lose of income for some. But I don't think Sony really wanted to see the first step in tradeskils become a stumbling block for people. It's only the refining process that is being changed, not the interim.

Under the current system, all crafts where interdependate on two out of three levels (refine and interim) only the final combine (finish) was free of this. Getting to that final stage was annoying. First I had to find those refined items to make the few interim items I could make, then the one I couldn't. This slowed down being able to craft, and frankly, made it more of a chore.

It's great to beable to make my own tempers now. I can convert all that carbonite clusters into bars quicker, and then make the next items faster. I will still need interim items for some of my carpenter items. I can't make spike and some tanned cords that I will need. This is good.

Basically, alchemists had it great as every recipe had something they made. To make up for this, thier posions and potions really need to be fixed and it should be part of the next patch. I have no clue as to what potions an alchemist can make, if any. And I know a level 30 alchemist and they say that all they make is inks and tempers and resin and such.

All I think this change to trades will do is push people towards more finished products rather then have the economy based more on refining and interim items.

I do see a big problem though. With the exception of sages all the other items do not decay in the economy. For example once I put a tailored item out it's out there forever. So it seems to me that tradeskilling to make money by selling items to players will die. Just buy that mid level robe I sold to some level 30 mage used instead of new from a tailor. This sounds poorly thought out to me atm.

hmmm never looked at it that way. i hope the final price on items goes up tho if i can't make money off of Carbonite studs anymore i'd at least like to earn it off a gold band or Bangle

and apart of me being very lazy i hope this drives down the price of neolith tempers and other teir 3 liquids on the market for tradeskilling so i don't have to run to the chemistry table every time

i think i'll just reserve judgement till all the changes roll live.

i might have missed it earlier, but i'll try and paint a picture for ya, which might cause some really bad things.

i belong to a pretty good guild, we play games together and lalala. ok so anyway. the only thing i see that might be bad with the agro issue, is just this:

1. you go up against raid mob <insert name>. most of the time these are alittle tuffer than the average giant in pf, or where ever you adventure. so with that in mind, if we have our damaged uped significantly, and tanks can't hold agro, it's funny, but your 4 groups go poof. so it's game over unless you get lucky, have a couple healers standing around, and can actually get a rez off, before raid mob <insert name> get the next huge hit off. there's not alot of room for error, i guess is my point. i'm gonna also assume that if you are in a position to raid, you pretty much understand how to hold your nukes, and not draw hate, and blah blah blah. if you don't, go pick up an atari, at your local game shop, and get your pong on! this is based on only raid mobs, cause normally you can get away with nuking whatever and whenever ya want, and if you pull agro, whoopdie dooo. tank throws a taunt, healer tosses ya a heal, and the mob dies.... yay, we win!

2. increase dps is nice, the same timer changes are good. however, i'm alittle disappointed in the ice comet at 45 seconds, however raid stuff last alot longer than the giants in pf, so you'll probably get more than 5 of them off/encounter. problem with that, please see above. what happens when more lvls are added though, and we go back into groups of 6 to try and xp, and can only get off ice comet every 3rd mob! oh well i guess, assasin big special is a minute i think, so we'll live.

3. i really hope this does not mess with adeptIII's. i know there are some players out there that have invested alot of time getting spells, that i still believe don't get proper justice(because of bad scaling).

4. let's give these devs a chance, i've actually seen a big improvement from other games, in regards to fixing issues. i gotta believe that they are trying to roll out fixes and balancing that is appropriate for each class, but nothing is gonna happen over nite. i'm mean hey, we obviously pushed our issues, and they are being addressed so hooooraahhhh for wizzies and warlocks.

lastly, be happy your not a sk. i have a couple of good buddies i've known for awhile, and yes they do tank well, but they have issues. hopefully sk's will get looked at next!!

final suggestion, don't nerf the horsies. i mean come on, i die if i'm on one and have agro, or if i'm not. yes it helps to have the extra speed to get away, but isn't that the point of working so hard to get a horse? if anything make them faster, so they are a proper mode of transportation. the fix i see that would be best, is just make horses normal run speed (same as on foot) once locked in an encouter. or maybe once locked in an encounter, you apply the nerfs being pushed on test. i think that would solve the problem. just don't make traveling tons of zones go even slower by nerfing the speed. i use my horse, as a means of travel, please let it conitinue to be one.. or i'll be first in line to sell mine back as well, cause it's just not worth it.

hey and have fun out there!

I think it will drive them down. There will always be people that don't want to make thier own tempers for time factor, and those that are cheapos.

Sony seems really intent on keeping the coin low in the game. While this sucks for those players that are intent on only making money to buy NPC sold items like horses, it's better for everyone over the long haul.

A slow trickle of coin prevents any one person being able to make selling coin for real money more work. It ruins the game for more people when items can be purchased outside of the game. The Frionia Vie server in EQ1 is a prime example of this. Since there is only 1% of items being no-drop/trade, everything is for sale. Since there is so much money floating around, anyone can simply buy a bunch of cheap money (ha ha ha, cheap money), gear up and go cause all kinds of hell for long time players.

This is an inderpendant game. We have to work together. So it will always be a struggle to balance between to much interdependance, and not enough.

OK if there is at least one thing we can all agree on its this... If wizards do have to manage their aggro (which I love the idea btw) then eBay groups can no longer just press buttons wihtout getting A LOT of debt!

Muahahahaahahaahaha

Acutal Players 1 eBayers 0

These changes come a long way towards making wizards what they are supposed to be. Whether this change is going to be enough remains to be seen, but I for one believe that an overall 300% increase in a very nice upgrade. Wizards/Warlocks should be the top dps in the majority of fights. Since I'm a 29 Wizard I can't comment on the efficacy of wizards past this level, but I downloaded a log parser at level 25 so I know that atleast up to level 29 there are no problems with wizard dps (should be even better with these changes). I have top dps in the group in every fight except when grouped with a warlock of similar level (top spot will trade off between myself and warlock) or grouped with a scout (they have some very nice skills, but only take top maybe 3 out of 10 fights). The great power we control means that our sacrifices must be just as great, such as our non-existant defense, and low hit points, yet one thing I've seen from wizards of all levels is complaints about our inability to solo well. I get frustrated as well when there seem to be no groups inviting and trying to solo a blue (solo con) having root break, and being at >50% Hp in 2-3 hit or less, but I've come to the conclusion that this is just another sacrifice I make for my power (as long as the sacrifices do not out weigh my arcane powers). Regarding the fact that this game is designed to have both group and solo content, quite simply it does, wizards may not solo well, but it's possible, and the trade off is dps far superior to any other class.

For those that are expressing their concerns please, give it atleast a week to take stock of the change and it's impact on your play style. (Dear lord, that's scary, I played a wiz for 5 years in EQ1 and hated the SoE fanbois that always said stuff like that, there is a major differance here though, there was an actual change made, this is a major upgrade to the wizard class, something that never actually happened in EQ1). After playing a wizard EQ1 for 5 years (yup I'm a sucker) I have a healthy skepticism of SoE ever dealing wizards from an unstacked deck, yet I can feel nothing but pleasure at this change, a change that nearly every wizard and SoE knew was needed. One thing to remember, these changes are still on test, until they go live you might want reserve your complaints, for or against.
Message Edited by Darret on 02-11-2005 09:51 AM

When does this patch go live?

I'm just curious ... do I have to be angry to be a wizard? ... ;P

What [FaarNerfed!]ing kind of [FaarNerfed!]ing statement is that? What do you [FaarNerfed!]ing think? Of course you [FaarNerfed!]ing have to be [FaarNerfed!]ing angry to be a [FaarNerfed!]ing wizard! Holy [FaarNerfed!] I can't [FaarNerfed!]ing belive you even [FaarNerfed!]ing had to [FaarNerfed!]ing askt that!

No we don't. The low level spell draws an insignificant portion of hate and the higher level uprade is broken so it only draws hate from yourself. And to one of the previous posters saying we have some kind of uber hate spell at 48 -- no we don't. Pallies are bottom-rung in terms of agro management. One weak single target taunt and one weak ae taunt are all we get from 40 to 50, unless you count a dumb stance that's a third as effective as a guardian's buffs.