The Line between Boxing and Botting

If your running more then one char at once, you have some serious competitive issues and some serious social ones as well. I never had to two box, and i could of at anytime. But i found getting a group of freinds together less frustrating and more fun, and not as trivial in fighting. Two boxing is for people who just want to beat everything fast, or do it all alone. Selfish players. Dont care to help communities, only care for their own acheivements and only look to make gains all the time.

A good player is one who logs in on one char, puts a group of people together and still manages to get his things done. This type of player is more honorable and cherished by the community then some dude two boxing to avoid grouping.

Seriously, you can do the same thing without having a plethora of characters if you just took the time to put something together, but my minds eye says your impatient and hence rather spend twice or three times the money someone else does to acheive the same goals. Its sad and indicitive of other problems in your social life.
Just my opinion, of course i could be wrong.....
BTW the good two or three boxers do cheat, especially the ones with 4 mages in their group. This is why i think SOE should limit accounts to one per IP per Server and elminate this disadvantage to the poor players. Imean not like a poor person can afford another box to ahceive the same goals right? In an MMO to have one person be an entire group defeats the purpose of Multiple Players in a Social Atmosphere. Two boxers are just diluting the game with more characters that DONT cooperate with others.
Message Edited by Espyderman on 12-11-2005 11:45 AM

Small add on ..

2 3 4 5 6 box all you want, what bothers me are the folks with obviously random generated names on the group members or 'kljwelr' etc all the same level in the same really cruddy gear farming named. The fighter (the one the other 4-5 are AFing) does not respond to tells, hails, /waves ... it's obviously someone farming for plat or someone so antisocial you must wonder why they're playing an online game.

While I think the rest of your post isn't fit to line a birdcage, this is one thing that is particularly misguided. I know a lot of roomates, dorm residents, and families who have one or more person on the same IP playing.

Some of the couples started with only one computer but 2 accounts which they would trade off playing (and now one couple in particular can play together, yay!).

Many people who share a domicile but aren't related also may play the game, should only one of them be allowed to do so? My boyfriend lived in a house with 3 roommates, when I got my boyfriend to come play EQ1 with me, one of his roommates (and his roomate's boyfriend who didn't live there) had EQ1 accounts and were regular players. Should my boyfriend have not been allowed to get an account because he had the same IP?

Some dorms and even some small apartment buildings share an Internet connection, should only one person in that entire location be allowed to play?

How about dynamic vs static IPs? If you are limited accounts per IP, then only one person subscribing to, as an example, Comcast broadband cable would be allowed to have an account since they have a dynamic IP (meaning it -changes- when they log off or even with an IP rotation at some time during the day).

How about a person who plays in different locations currently? My boyfriend plays at home and also plays at my house when he's here (I have 3 computers capable of running EQ2 and 3 others running Linux). I have carried my computer with me to play at his house and have even carried it with me to a hotel when I was going to be away for a convention or some such where I would have free time but nothing -there- to do other than watch TV. So, would you have an IP check before being allowed to play?

I don't have a problem with boxers as long as they are not in my group. It is not acceptable when someone is multi-boxing and not playing either character to their full potential. Usually when I find out if someone is boxing in my group, I give them the boot and find two more capable players. Boxing is great for soloing or doing your own thing, but they really bring a groups capability down when they join.
As for botters, if I find out anyone is using a 3rd party program, I do not hesistate to let the GMs know.
Message Edited by Atmosphear1993 on 12-11-2005 03:47 PM

To use my example: 8 people spending (e.g.) 10 (even though, thanks to the boxers, it was closer to 20) hours waiting for a named to pop for a quest. That's 80 man hours. 2 people 4x boxing camping same named for loot for 10 hours, 20 man hours.

Loot % per person for a standard player = 12.5%. Loot % per person for the boxer = 50%.

Four times the group effort for a quarter of the individual reward.

How on earth you can say that that isn't unbalanced, I've no idea.

I don't have any kind of crusade against boxers and to be honest I found it interesting from a development pov, setting up a KVM system, or using dumb teminals and client-specific log parsing procs to activate healing/attack macros for each char, making a fully efficient almost-automated ( have to be within SOEs rules after all ) unkillable group... etc etc etc but at the end of the day no matter how you look at it it's a reduction of effort. If people boxing didn't give an unfair advantage over the non-boxers I really wouldn't mind, but it does.
Message Edited by UnderToad on 12-12-2005 05:35 AM

To use my example: 8 people spending (e.g.) 10 (even though, thanks to the boxers, it was closer to 20) hours waiting for a named to pop for a quest. That's 80 man hours. 2 people 4x boxing camping same named for loot for 10 hours, 20 man hours.

Loot % per person for a standard player = 12.5%. Loot % per person for the boxer = 50%.

Four times the group effort for a quarter of the individual reward.

How on earth you can say that that isn't unbalanced, I've no idea.


Hmm. I just don't look at it that way. Not saying you're wrong, I just don't see the logic to your point - you'd need to convince me.

The way I see it on each of those is:

1) Man-hours. Does it matter how many man-hours something takes? You're a player, you wait 10 hours for your quest ding. I'm a player, I wait 10 hours for my quest ding. I'm not getting more than you are or getting my ding any more quickly on a quest spawn - I don't see how man-hours figures your point. And I'll quickly point out that where there are folks near looking to join a group for that same ding I do drop one and take in an LFGer.

The only thing I can think of that would count man-hours would be, say, how many man-hours of harvesting does it take to harvest a rare for your armor or weapon? Well when you two-box, double it because you're running around 1 to do the harvesting needs of 2 characters. It's twice the work.

2) Loot. You're assuming that a multiboxer rolls once per character rather than once per player. I and many multis I know (certainly all I play with) roll only on Need before Greed basis and then only once per Player not per Character (I may play 2 plate classes but if nice plate drops we decide on 1 of them only, then announce it and then only roll with that one). It makes gearing up twice as long as for a single character player, but the challenge is why I and those I play with are in it.

Setting all that aside for a moment, however... Imagine you're in a group of 6. Something nice drops but nobody needs it so the call goes up to All Roll. Your chances don't change from 1/6 if you're in a group of 6 seperate players or 3 players, the other two multiboxing although if you're in the group with 3 players there is a certain sub-chance that you might be in a group that plays like my circle does where rolls are once per player. In that case you'd have the 1/3 chance. Your odds for a "greed roll" item can't get worse than 1/6 yet they could get much better in a multi-box group.

Message Edited by Semma on 12-12-2005 10:32 AM

It seems to me in reading the previous posts that a lot of the complaints about multi-boxing are based on assumptions. One assumption is that people are boxing for nefarious or flawed reasons. Another is that people cannot multi-box as well as they can single play.

I do not agree with either assumption. Bad motives are fairly rare in the game, but I have not noticed people who box have worse pathology than those who do not. Honestly, I do not see many people who box. I do see lots of people who post outrageous statements in OOC hoping to get an argument started. But I do not see how anyone could post about the psychological motivations of boxers in general. There are as many reasons to box as there are people who do it. I do not box, I have the equipment and accounts to do so, but it would not be fun for me. I would get confused and killed. Not that getting killed is any big deal anymore!

And it is naive or silly to say that multi-boxers cannot play as well as a single character. Perhaps you have not grouped with some of the people I have lately, but clulessness is CERTAINLY not limited to multi-box players! I imagine that 50% of some player's concentration is better than 100% of mine.

So the best course of action seems to be to see how an INDIVIDUAL plays when they multi-box, and make a grouping decision based on that. Same thing I do with individual players, if the group is not working because someone does not play the way I like to play, I talk about it or leave. No biggie.

Trey

I sooo agree. Some of the single-computer players make you wonder where they bought the account... But it is possible to get high level in EQ2 even though you play horridly and don't know a thing about how your own class works, let alone how it works in combination with other classes. Ironically, it's the worst players who know nothing about any of their class or how to work in a team who are often the first to whine about how "broken" they are (note: not all complaints about problems with a class, spell, or art are just a result of poor players). I have seen some really really really horrid players who only have one account, one character.

In a way, someone who is multi-boxing has to know his classes even better than anyone with one.

After reading you skewed and unthoughtful point of view, I must say maybe you should try it before you knock it.
I've seen single boxed toons play worse and even be more selfish then a 2 boxer. Just cause some people 2box doesn't mean they are loot hungry they just like to be alone sometimes or like to have a pre-made group. It really just depends on the player playing the toons not how many boxes they have. Like I said, i've seen single boxed toons be just as selfish and loot hungry as a 2 box group would be.

This is why I don't tell people I 2box in a group. Unless its my guild...I don't tell anyone for this reason.

I was grinding in a group for 2 hours solid with no deaths and getting awesome XP and soon as I told them I was 2 boxing they got wierd and wigged and asked me to leave. I was like...ooook even though I doing a really good job its like you get this mental state where they must suck because they 2 box.

Needless to say I was the main healer in the group so they broke up because they couldn't find a healer. *shrugs* No one died when I boxing but what do I know =P

When a person plays more than 1 character, they have to divide their attention for each character rather than concentrating on a single class. I don't care how well you do your job as a boxer, you will still do better playing as a single character. Thus, I only allow single-controlled characters in my group.

Boxers don't belong in normal groups in my opinion. It is completely up to the group leader though.

I've grouped with people that we later discovered were two boxing, it sounds like a similar situation. You group with them for a while, and you don't notice how one of them always seems to be afk...then they say they're two boxing, and you start looking....they've both been looting.....only one is fighting....."Kick from Group" looks better and better.

Most 2-boxers I have known have been -active- with both characters.

If a single boxer is afk a lot in a pickup group, "kick from group" looks better and better.

I don't 2-box in EQ2 (at least not at this time), however, generally I am duoing with my boyfriend and we'll often build a group from us by adding others or we'll even combine with another group. Do we look like a 2-boxer? At times, I'm sure we do since one of us knows we can put the other on auto-follow for travel to go do something RL (we're not always playing in the same room, mostly we're each at our own home) quick without leaving everyone waiting. I often know when he's doing something even when we're not in the same room and vice-versa for him and me. I also know if he's dozed off (he has the problem/ability to fall asleep at the drop of a hat without much or any warning) or had to step away RL to deal with roommates before the group even notices. Since we're usually together, would you deem us a 2-boxer and dismiss us?

When person gets drunk or is medicated they have little to no attention either. I've seen single boxers walk off and get killed for no reason or not perform their jobs very well in the group. But of course I only 2 box what will I ever know since im greedy and anti-social but wait...how can we be social if you never want us in groups...paradox indeed..

Wow...i've had wizard go afk and yet loot away and not fight. Hmmm he was a single boxer...a greedy single boxer...go figure.
I just don't get you people...not all multi-boxers are greedy...single boxers have been just as greedy as multi-boxers...it really all depends on the player playing the toons.

I don't care if boxers try to be social or not. It doesn't even bother me that one person gets an extra chance at loot (the loot still has to be distributed between 2 characters.) It is my gameplay preference not to have them in my own groups because multi-tasking characters does reduce the total performance the player is capable of. If a single character isn't paying attention to the gameplay while grouped to the point where they are useless, they also deserve to be booted. However, knowing that there is one person behind a single toon will tell me that the person is at least concentrating on one character.

thats soo boxist of you! ^^^

Haha, so now we have Boxists and Boxism? Do not turn towards the way of the Boxist! :smileytongue:

im just tired of listening to the stearo type that every boxer is....

1. Anti-Social

2. Selfish

3. Greedy

4. Has a big advantage

5. Doesn't want to help the community

Its just not true...not all multi-boxers are like that. Single boxers also possess the same attributes as a multi-boxer...Like I keep saying it really all depends on the player that is playing the toon(s).

I multi-box to do quests I need to get done and be able to get groups started. I really don't like playing by myself or soloing...I like being social and grouping with people. Sometimes you get the class that just isn't needed at the time so you sit around waiting for a group to pick you up or enough people to start one.