I posted a few threads about the crafting in EQ2 back in 2005-2007. I've played EQ2 on-off for some time and... i have to say the crafting in EQ2 is probably among the worst i've experienced in a mmo. Not sure why i even waste my time posting this, but it sure beats crafting in the game. I'll start off with just putting it out there, the itself crafting is not the problem in EQ2. The problem is this "mini-game" that really brings EQ2 crafting up to among the most boring/tedious crafting experiences you can have in a mmo. The crafting should be about gathering the material then have a go at it. EQ2 just doesn't stop at gathering resources... it takes that extra step just to increase that tedious momentum. The crafting leveling speed is fine i guess. It's basically the same as leveling and wouldn't be that big concern if it weren't for the "mini-game". A solution to EQ2 crafting to make it more interesting and fun would be to *remove* the mini-game and make the success rate based on your actual crafting skill. Best would just be to have a straight forward crafting system like every other mmo. It would still be a long grind. Removing the crafting mini-game and/or having it automated would be a big step forward. I don't see how anyone can enjoy clicking away hours after hours -- not even the EQ2 developers. But yeah, i doubt it'll ever change considering it hasn't for all these years. It's a shame really because the game has so much to offer... if you look past the crafting. Anyway for me the only reason i always stop playing EQ2 all the time is because of the tedious crafting. I just hate it. But EQ2 being "free" these days makes it even harder since they have no reason to listen to their players. I can always hope that some future gaming developers actually read/or have actually played EQ2 so they know what *not* to do with their crafting. There are so many ways to make crafting more fun or at least less "grindy" and annoying. Having a silly mini-game is not one of them. I guess the mini-game wouldn't be a big issue if the tradeskill leveling was *way* faster. Don't get me wrong i don't mind the time it takes to craft. The only complain is against the mini-game involved in the crafting itself. The worst part was seeing how tedious the system was and how easily it could be automated. Well, enough of me. I just hope if they ever release a "new" everquest or any other mmo... that they skip out on a tedious crafting system. We don't live back in the late 90's early 2000's. We're past that. It's bad enough that mmo's haven't really evolved beyond "Go kill x and return" quests...
The reason I love crafting in EQ2 is because it's not like every other MMO. Crafting in other games is for people who don't really want to craft at all. You click create and go afk. No thanks. There's absolutely no reason why you have to craft. Every item that you'd need/want crafted can be crafted for you, even no trade items that can be commission crafted. If you hate crafting, the solution is simple. Just don't craft. I hate pvp, therefore I don't play on a pvp server or play in battlegrounds. I'm not asking for them to be removed or changed drastically because I don't love them. Go adventure or pvp or quest or raid or roleplay or whatever it is you do love about the game and leave crafting to those of us who do enjoy it.
The crafting here is simplistic enough.It doesn't need to be any simpler. Vanguard is more involved, far more. SWG is more involved due to RNG and absolute need for a amazing experimentation chain more than anything Pre NGE SWG crafting was fantastic. Going to a one button combine push like Wow is not crafting, it is harvesting, with a twist. Not much different than GW "crafting" where you take raws to an NPC. I don't like to group craft or commission craft. I don't complain about it.. I just don't do it.. Game has a lot of room for individual tastes. (except for mount speed)
MMOs have evolved to the point that really after EQ2 I'm not sure I will ever play another one. They used to be a hobby. Now everyone wants to pop in and get instant gratification. MMO makers are going after the short term subscriber and losing the people that are in it for the long haul. IMO WoW has ruined an entire industry. Other than that it does not appear that you actually understand the tradekilling system in EQ2.
I missed the part where anyone is obliged to craft if they find it so abominable. Personally I much prefer EQ2's system, even in it's current simplistic state compared to what it was up until mid 2006 to the EQ1 style of toss everything into a container and hit combine and either suceed or fail due to the RNG
Zaldor wrote: Absolutely. I hope that someday the industry evolves to niche gaming.. I would even pay more, just as I pay more for higher quality products that Walmart does not offer. But..all they can see is the subs. They all want to be Walmart.
Couldn't agree more that WoW has destroyed the mmo genre. Used to play daoc back in 2001. Now that was epic. The crafting was pretty terrible and EXPENSIVE beyond what a mortal player could afford. You had to create components, then craft one object at a time with a low percent rate to even get a point. That was hardcore. Not saying EQ2 is like that... EQ2 crafting is just boring and tedious. As for WoW that is simplified indeed. However it does take time to gather the materials... unless you're you and buy it off AH for insane prices. Also the crafting follows your levels. You can't cheat it by making a low level character and max it out. Lotro has a decent crafting system. It has one nasty bump tho.. and that is the quests you *have* to be leveled to do or have people helping you, only helps up to a certain point. Used to be a lot worse, you had to have parts from another profession to even level yours. That was pretty nasty but they removed it eventually. It only ended up with people rolling all crafters on the account anyway. Happens in all games tho, in the end you have all crafting profession maxed out. SWG - Loved the crafting in that game. It was pretty hardcore with the materials and what quality they could be at certain times of the day etc. But the crafting itself was very user friendly and even macro-able from within the game itself a big + for that. Matrix Online - Terrible. I am glad i barely even remember that game. AC2 - Loved it. Warhammer Online - It was okay. Don't really remember much of it. Pretty straight forward. A lot more games i've played but i can't even remember. As for the "best" crafting i've ever seen in a game... it wouldn't even be in a mmo sadly. The best ones are always found in single player games. The time invested to level crafting does not matter to me, they can be long grinds or fast. What i hate is when they are just plain boring and tedious. Most mmo's follow the "boring" part. EQ2 sadly goes into both boring and tedious.
crafting is just fine although not interesting. but when i consider the old-school eq2 crafting it was a nightmare with all those pre-combines. for example in another game there was a secondary tradeskill where you planted herbals for later use in alchemy. the process involved also soil, water and fertilizer otherwise not every seed would be successful in the end. but the fact was that you NEVER had the need to use that crap because even if you failed you got enough out of the seed to plant new seeds that it was just a minigame that could be ignored. so basically you clicked that crafting thing an waited and you could do that when you were questing or doing stuff. so basically you just had to remind yourself to constantly click a button and plant stuff --> even more boring than eq2 crafting
Whiff@Crushbone wrote: I understand your frustration, as many a time I've fallen asleep at the crafting table; however, I like the fact that the everquest 2 crafting system is unique and feels like it takes an effort of some sort, even if that effort only equates to time. I have to agree with some of the other posters when I say that I'd really hate to see the EQ2 system reduced to WoW standards. I do think the system needs some tweaking, saddly, I have no real suggestions on how to do so, but the 'mini-game' aspect is what sets it appart and makes it unique. I'd really hate to see that leave.
Personally, apart from the carpal tunnel, I don't really have any problems with the way crafting currently is. Of course it would make things easier/faster, but I think it would be too easy. Already, aside from rares, we don't really have to gather ourselves anyway with the hirelings & pack ponies...So I don't really see a challenge in clicking a single button to create an item.
I have always hated hated hated the crafting window (don't tell me to get a mod). It is huge reminds me of the old days in eq1 where we sat staring at a spellbooks meditating more than doing anything else. Why have gorgeous animations of the crafting process if you are going to stare at a big crafting window and die or lose your fuels if you take your eyes off the screen at the wrong moment.? Crafting in the beginning was complicated and interdepent resulting in most of us having one of every crafter. That was time consuming, but at least we had time to type and chat and enjoy the process because we didn't have to worry about missing one counter. In the beginning the actions we took actually did what the counter said , we didn't have nonsensical failures that seem to have been added sometime around the time vanguard failed lol as if they sent their horrid crafting system to us. It is time too to get rid of the generic mess of icons and have one set for the everyone can do this recipe or I have to make something the other guy makes in a tradeskill instance. Especially, since there is no way to actually have 9 crafters in the instance at the same time to do each step of the process. I am sure I have lots and lots more rants about the crafting over the years hehe but I will end with this: It is still one of the best out there and gets better all the time.
LOL you need to go away and go back to playing your WOW. Dare I say and I'm taking a leap here I was one of the first year vets of the game I was doing it before update 1 and you started on refugee island. Had to quest to be your class at 20, did the citizenship quests before I could even get into the gates of freeport, and was asked wheather or not I was a adventurer or a craftsman at the city gate. You would have torn your hair out with crafting the way it was then. You had to gather pelts to make into leather which was hard and tedious. I remember spending 3 hours real time making one freak'n backpack because I had to get ore to make iron bars to make a buckle. I had to use three diffrent tables depending on the recipe. Nothing like insta gratification huh? here's your backpack... GO AWAY. I craft for fun, not for profit unless someone askes for something that I can make. Usually get a tad more then what I would get if I sold it to a vendor. Again depending on if I'm suppling the rare or not. Just go. Crafting is fine you are broken, go away with this before I get not so nice.
I liked crafting at launch, even had an alt or two dedicated to crafting, but I haven't gotten a single tradeskill level past level 10 on any character since they removed the pre-combines. Unfortunately, you're never going to have a crafting system that pleases everyone. Some people obviously like the current system, but I agree with the OP that it's tedious and lacks depth.
I loved the system once they introduced geomancy or whatever it was that allowed you to make all your own sub-combines. Unless you're on a laptop or 800x600 resolution I don't see how the crafting window takes up the whole screen.
clearly, you do mind the crafting or else you wouldnt be complaining... NO. auto AFK & craft is a WOW thing. if thats what you want from crafting, then there is WOW. i agree that it is tedious and often highly boring; however, mimicking WOW is not the way to fix it. it's not more interesting or fun. its simply AFK crafting. alternatively, you could just *not* craft. there are lots of ppl in game that never make it past artisan level 1, 10 and 20.
1280x760 is the resolution I use. Here is what it looks like and in my opinion the crafting window is too large.
I'm actually fond of my SUPER bulky crafting window .. edit: using ProfitUI for those curious about my set up.
I move my crafting window to the left of the screen. None of my windows are in the middle, not Character, Broker, anything. They all get moved to the left or right.
Make the crafting "less tedious"? This is probablly the simplest crating system I can think of. It's a little mind numbing to repeatedly hit the same progress buttons...but at least they are asking us to do something. Otherwise it might as well have a built in bot with a "combine all" button. [And I do have 18 crafters spread on 2 accounts. 13 of which are lvl 90 and have specialty factions. So I'm very familiar with our crafting system ] Maybe I've got a different outlook because I ahve tried a game where crafting was much more involved than it is here in EQ2, so it makes this look much more watered down. But, I think for someone brand new to gaming, that EQ2's crafting is probablly just the right speed and involvement. I can see that they do want to try and make it and option for those who normally would just be "adventurers". And for any other hardocre "crafters" out there, check out the crafting in Vanguard. Now that was a tradeskill system lol As the side note on the crafting UI, I'd love to see something a bit smaller too
You could easily make the crafter UI smaller now, having the four bars is not that important anymore since we can't produce 4 products of different quality. Just one bar would be enough, or some other solution to see the progress and durability.
