Cloudrat wrote: I'm going to raise a point of objection here. While what we make changes, and the meta game changes, the crafting mini-game is almost exacty the same as it was at launch. Pre-beta crafting was described as walking through a process of doing things like moving bits around the crafting station so you could process the materials and end up with a final product. It sounded really exciting. During most of beta, crafting wasn't available. When it finally did get released for testing...it was what we have now. The funny thing is you can see where the art team did their work for the initial vision. The crafting stations come alive when your using them. Too bad you can't really enjoy it since your staring at the mini-game. I started protesting that the mini-game was booring and should be replaced by something that people would actually want to play. Crafting got rushed out the door during beta and quite frankly the only thing that the devs did to crafting was fix most of the broken recipes, and stop crafting from taking resources from your bank. Just for a little perspective on how rushed it was, you couldn't make figher spells for 2 months because the crafting dev was working on it. You couldn't craft the recipes in game because it required a vender purchased component that wasn't added to the game for 2 months. I've always thought it would be better if each crafting game had its own mini-game. Check out Puzzle Pirates for an example of what I'm thinking about. At the very leist it wouldn't be dead booring.
Cloudrat wrote: I'd have moved the craft window to the upper right corner the minute I opened it the first time so I could see what I was doing personally. No need at all for it to be in the middle of the screen. If that's where you like it them fine, good for you. YOu can keep ot there and turn your camera angle slightly and still see the work station.
I don't have experience crafting in other games so I can't compare but I have an odd addiction to the crafting in eq2, I don't find it fun and it's boring but it's so mindless that I can do other things like listen to podcasts or watch TV, so it hasn't bothered me.. But if they got rid of the little reactions and either made it simpler but take longer to create, OR made it more complex and that you got more experience per combine and there were things like flawless combines that made a really nice item but it was really hard to do (or something). Right now its just a bit of a joke because anyone can make a pristine it's not like it's special to make one anymore but you have to stare at your screen anyway even though its not a challenge so, one way or another..
I agree the window is a bit large. I also prefer default, and I found making the backdrop of the window transparent helps a lot to feel like you get some game back. Cloudrat wrote:
Just wanted to chime in my two cents lol. I have played a lot of mmo's where the crafting systems still are pretty brutal. Aion for one where u have to pay astromical amounts of money to refine the mats, then actually make the item you want, which often has a huge chance to fail. Very frustrating to try to craft in that game, i cannot tell you how many times i blew over a million kinah trying to craft 1 single piece of armor for it to fail. One thing i would love to see this game do, is to have an option to do crafting in groups. For example : You want to craft 10 dividers for your home, instead of having to craft dividers individually- You could right click on it and a window would appear with the following options "Craft 1, Craft 5, Craft 10" you would select the options that works with you the best. Then you would only craft 1 time and get the amount of that item you selected. Now this option should not work on rush orders. Just when you are crafting stuff for your home or for a friend. Nothing where you actually get city writs from.
The only change I would like to see is a increase of the xp. It is sad that with double xp, 4 lvl 90 crafters bonus, and a potion that 2.4% is all the xp you get. And that is what you would get without the double xp and the potion. Taking forever to get one crafting level isn't something I really enjoy...I am not thrilled about crafting but obviously I do it cause I hate paying outrageous prices for simple stuff like food/drink. But seriously the xp is horrible and needs to be changed up not like we get any other bonuses...every blue moon might see a favor of innovation but not enough to make up for the xp that is for sure.
Nunja@Unrest_old wrote: Increase in exp? You do realize that rush orders, writs, and tradeskill quests award a large amount of exp on turn-in? If you're just grinding try doing a rush order instead.
Nunja@Unrest_old wrote: Seem like a bit of false economy there. All that time spent levelling your provisioner you could easily have farmed enough plat to buy all the food and drink you'll ever need until EQ2 closes it's doors and the last server logs off.
Personally I find the crafting system an ugly abomination . I don't do it, period. I tried to level a a carpenter so i can do some house items, but i gave up at lvl 30 it was just so damn boring. I don't get the point of that mini-game at all, but that's just me of course. It made me not want to craft , so when i do need something crafted I will publicly search for a crafter, pay them a lot over the odds and just get it done that way. The thing that is most annoying is that mini game, ok I get it, people don't want a 1 click craft system, faitr enough, i am not saying crafting should become one. But there is a huge boredom involved when pushing the same 3 buttons over and over and looking at 4 bars slowly getting filled up. That is not interesting. It's boring and it doesn't add anything to my game experience.
Whiff@Crushbone wrote: I will agree that the mini-game in EQ2 could use some work. I can only craft about 20-30 minutes before I get so sleepy I cannot keep my eyes open. Whiff@Crushbone wrote: And here's where I couldn't disagree with you more. Copying WoW is not the answer (it rarely is). The issue is the tedium and boredom of the current crafting mini-game. What we need, without increasing the complexity or physical dexterity required, is to replace 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 with a real mini-game. This could be a puzzle or wiring chart or something that requires a little bit of brainpower and moving the mouse to keep our interest. Also, being proactive and clicking reactions early shouldn't result in losing progress or durability. The current system is too reliant upon a stable internet connection. I'd like to see some kind of little puzzle that takes 10-15 seconds to work out and then crafting proceeds by itself.
feldon30 wrote: That makes 2 of us. For an example, i like the hacking in Deus Ex 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rSXOKxq7Ro) - not pushing just buttons, but putting a little thought in it - not as in Deus Ex 1, where you just needed Skillpoints... Regards, theriatis.
Well here are my two cents about what should be done with the crafting system in this game. First off, it is as boring and tedious as it gets, I honestly don't know if you could think up a mini game that was more so. The first thing that should obviously be changed is the mini game, make it more interactive and overall more interesting, also make it change some item to item. For example maybe change the mini game based on what crafting table you are using. Next, while I know many people will scream and yell about this idea, there absolutely HAS to be some way to hit one button large scale crafting. Now how you could possible balance something like this, only allow it on say stack based items like arrows, also if you use it, make it not give XP. The reality is, most people who craft crazy amounts of things like arrows, use a program to do it anyways, even if they are physically at the computer. So adding this option in a limited way only does one thing, it keeps crafting program companies from making money off the player base.
Crafting in EQ2 is a Catch 22 for me. I agree that other games systems are far too easy, but EQ2's system is far FAR too tedious and inane. This is a Game and games are supposed to be fun, which crafting can be, but EQ2's system is not in anyway. However I now see they are hiring someone to work on it... so who knows, but please dont give us anything thats far FAR too easy!
Easy does not equal fun. For once I wish they'd think of something that is fun and not just do something because the Wow generation can't handle anything more than 1 click.
Personally I think changes over the past 1-2 years have done a lot to make crafting BORING, INANE AND TEDIOUS. 1. Removal for First Time bonus - capitulation to whiners. 2. Repeated Critical Failures with high Punishment 3. FOrcing you to watch reactions even on GREY recipes ( you never used -- you could craft automatically) 4. Reactions and penalties to durability have gotten higher so that even a level 90 crafter takes longer to make a recipe than in the past. 5. The addition al group content - with 1 reward - forcing people to solo the instances so they get the reward. 6. Creation of Far Seas Trading Commission - added a new level of tedium to get recipe books. 7. Reward for writs ( ALL WRITS) is still low and adds to the tedium. 8. Making an item now takes way too long - it never used to take so long. 9. Adding more leather to dens thereby rendering leather worthless and now hard to do the Harvesting Cloak without useless piles of leather. I have 9 crafters at 90 and I would never start another crafter.
Maroger wrote: Oh I agree its changed a LOT since launch, and for the better for average gamers like myself. I couldnt work the original system at all and it often had me so frustrated that I cried (small violin time, I know). Although games should give a lot of differing emotions one they shouldnt give is frustration.
Maroger wrote: There were good reasons for every one of these changes. 1) Now all crafts advance at the same rate. Bonus xp was added to writs and other crafting quests to make up for the loss of first time pristine bonuses. I love how people like to trot this out as the flagship of crafting nerfs. 2) The only way you get repeated critical failures (now) is if you totally ignore events. They use to be fairly common back in the old days, when 1 out of 6 crafting attempts started with a critical failure backed up with another critical failure. I haven't seen crafting like that for years. 3) Yes, you actually have to pay attention when crafting. Sorry, us "hard core" crafters asked for it to be hard. It is still mind numbingly easy so nobody is happy. That's called compramise. 4) Put on some crafting gear. Just wearing the shawl, solstice earring and Othmir armor I can strum progress-progress-progress and finish 9 out of 10 combines. Just don't ignore events! 5) Agreed. The instances are under rewarded for group effort, and they shouldn't be soloable. But they were made soloable so the reward isn't truely a group reward. Its a cause and effect situation. A second set of non-soloable instances should be made and given more rewards that should benifit at least half the group for each run. 6) Nobody makes you do it. If you totally ignore the quests and instances, crafting now is exactly like crafting was 6 years ago. Same recipes, only higher tier. You didn't loose anything when more content was added for crafting. 7) Like you said, still. Actually it is a lot more rewarding now than it use to be. Now you get status for doing writs, and city tokens. It use to be that you got xp, a trivial amount of coin, and society faction. Society faction...leveled the society. Not too exciting for you personally. 8) Essentially the exact same complaint as #4. 9) Dens were changed to the way they are now because people use way more leather than meat. Tailors, carpenters and armorers all need large amounts of leather. Provisioners don't generally make a lot of meat products. Even when they do they consume less per recipe than tailors. This was seen as a 100% change for the better until... ...Harvesting Obsession quest line was introduced. Now suddenly harvesters everywhere were clammering for more meat. Strangely enough, DOMINO KNEW WHAT THE DROP RATES OF MEAT WERE WHEN SHE MADE THE QUEST. You'll notice in the past 2 years neither the drop rate of meat or the required amounts were changed. Domino has never been shy about making changes. You think, maybe it was by design?
Hennyo wrote: A factory system similar to SWG might be interesting. I'm currious to see what the crafting apprentices are going to be like. While it sounds like they are going to be making stuff we can't, its nebulous enough that I can't tell what they will be doing.
