Toran@Oasis wrote: i say they arnt OP i say this based on the fact as a paladin, i really dont care to see it go maybe it will kill the amends crying (it wont) owell a decent ability thats highly situational wont kill crusaders (both HG and GS dont need to be used 99.8% of the time)
It probably won't hurt crusaders much. I mean it will still be threat, just not positions, and there are only a handful of classes in the game that could rip a group of mobs off a crusader. I think the main difference between grave sac and reinforce (i'm not sure how holy ground works) is that GS procs 33% of the time whenever anyone hits a mob. Reinforcement only procs when the guard hits a mob, and guards have 3 PBAoE that will proc reinforcement if they spec down the agi line (all on long recasts), one long casting time encounter AoE, and 40% frontal cone auto attack to 4 mobs. And reinforcement won't be up on every pull, so most of the time the guard has to tab target, which targetting seperate encounters is a challenge in itself thanks to EQ2's awesome targeting system they refuse to fix. Whereas with GS, the SK can more or less pop it, take a quick afk, and hold aggro on everything. But yea, the nerf probably won't even matter.
Rahatmattata wrote: The spell text reads one way but I believe Atan first reported that it was actually raising the position 100% of the time. This may be the problem the producer is referring to. (Assume the paladin mechanic has a similar issue.) We'll have to wait and see what "a much more modest rank increase" means.
Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote: I agree. It's easy to get nervous anytime a change like this is proposed but we really won't know until more info is released.
Rahatmattata wrote: Yes that is what GS does now. But, if SKs lose all positional gains that GS currently has. Yes, they are replacing it with threat....but threat does practically nothing on mem-wiping mobs. This and HG are designed for controlling more than 1 mob at a time that mem-wipes. Take away the positionals and you basically take away any usefullness the spell has. Crusaders don't need to create more hate, they need an AE snap for when they are dropped to the bottom of the hate list. The problem with the nerf, and even some of you guys are admitting it, is GS especially is completely situational and it is on a 3 min recast. HG on the other hand was way less situational because it can be focused much like Reinforcement, however much much more powerful than Reinforcement because it raised 24 hate positions whenever a Paladin hit a mob. Not to mention that HG is on a much shorter recast time. Now Guards will have the only AE snap ability with Reinforcement + AEs. They will be the only fighter that will get to increase multiple hate positions over time in an AE situation. That really don't seem to jive with the fact their intended role is MT while others are OT. And to correct no GS was not increasing 100% each time a mob was hit. The reason it seemed like that is because the more people that are hitting on the mob the faster it increases positions. Put it in a raid situation and you are talking about multiple hate positions very fast on the mobs that are being hit. On STs, or the target that MA is on, that hate will be very fast....while on AE mobs it isn't as fast because less people AE. What should be changed is keeping some type of hate position increase over-time, but not the current state it is in. HG should increase 1 hate position everytime the Paladin hits the mob still. And GS should be reduced to something like 10% of the time the mob is damaged.
Bruener wrote: Berserkers get a true PBAoE snap. AoE Rescue + damage in fact. It's called Jeering Onslaught. And what's up with all fighters getting versions of Tower of Stone and Tsunami?
Beserkers also have Insolence. This is a is a large aoe damage and taunt plus a chance to proc an encounter taunt when the beserker is hit. When the beserker have their myth this also carries a hate position increase. Jeering Onslaught as a blue aoe is broken as the Beserker has to have a mob targeted and have it within range to use the ability, unlike most if not all other blue aoe's where you can pop them off if you have a target in range or not.
This line from the Producers Letter seems to indicate that GS will still have some sorta of positional component?
Yea, it will probably be a flat 3 positions or something, with the rest of the spell being threat over time.
Shadowknights are fine, working as intended. Learn2play and kite them in pvp or get out. And seriously, pve server players compalning about sk? lol! Edit: My warden is more op than my sk could possibly ever be, just look him up on eq2 players, or my profile. Way more kills better kvd ration oh and he can run away so easily. If anything, nerf wardens imo
Apparently SOE game devs disagree with you. As far as pvp goes, it's a completely different ruleset and has it's own balance issues. Please teach me how to kite a plate tank that can harm touch your face from 100 feet away. I'd imagine a lot of players would disagree that wardens need to be nerfed. They are pretty lackluster for healing/group survivability (buffs). Most people play skill or strategy based games for pvp, like first person shooters or real time strategy, or even more traditional games like billiards/chess/etc... thus they play on pve servers where pvp imbalances don't affect them. Stat based games suck for pvp where if you pick a warden you win or if you pick a necro you lose. And regardless of all that, SKs are still pretty OP in pvp. That's why you play one, and a warden. You like easymode.
I have played both sides of the tank issue. I have a lv 80sk and a lv 80 guard. I started playing my sk the day they opened the pvp server's. On venkor i was a class leader for the shadow knight. RoK was beond bad for us. Was an amazing expansion for my guard. Prior to RoK i personaly feel is when the plate tanks were closest to balance. Each tank could do the job but each one did it just a little diffrent. Be it better or worst. RoK dropped a major tub of crap on anything that could AE. Prior to RoK the only "saves" shadow knights had was DA if speced for it and a larger bleed pool, FD, and the heal attached to there harm touch. Guards had guard sphere, tower of stone, dragoon reflexes if speced, could blow up there heart, and 2 good mit buffs. RoK gave the sk bloodletter. Now we get to TSO. At the start SK's were still inthe same boat as RoK they just gave us more AE mobs. Cool now we can look good on a parse by pumping out our AE DoT's. About mid TSO they boosted out casting speed, changed sacrament from a dumb fire to a point blank unlimited AE rescue/large dmg, changed our myth to be usefull, and gave us furver. None of these items alone would of put us over the top like people claim. But combined they do. I do agree that SK's either need to be tonned down or the other tanks need a boost. My personal feeling is they took a class the demanded skill and patintce to master and dumbed us down. SK's now anyone cant pick up the toon and hold agro. Even people who swore they would never tank find them self playing a shadow knight because you dont feel like your tanking when playing the class anymore. stuff starts hitting the fan pop furver still not going well DA still hard myth clicky. Warlock snapping agro drop sacrament. They have truly dumbed down the class i love its play style was unique. I honestly couldnt tell much diffrence when my guard was a guard or when i had him as a zerker. playing a swash or my assassin is pretty much the same get behind the mob and go to town. My sk on the other hand timing life taps, wondering if iam going to have to FD my warlock buddy cuz hes over nuking, all as dirty jokes are being cracked in vent. I would be happy if they would up the guards AE agro. And even a little dps boost. Zerkers i feel a pretty good. they have decent saves and still dps. Pally's you have amends nuff said lol i do think you could use a slight boost to single target dps though. Sk's do one of 2 thinks drop a bit of our dps or a bit of our hate gain. I expect to see a nerf come our way and i honestly hope it does i hate seeing the massive influx of sk's that make it to lv 80 and are asking if int is good for us... all they know is DA + furver means they dont die for 20 sec
i started playing pretty much at launch and i started a SK because i played a necro and SK in EQ 1 and as much as i wanted to really like SK they just sucked, they had zero mitigation and next to zero damage. Finally after about 2 months i quit. couldnt remember my old account info so i had to start a new account and let me tell you, they stil sucked in 2007 came back again and left again and just recently came back and SK now is a totally different class. we can actually survive now, we can actually do damage now. mind you the horse and our "pets" still suck but whatever. If they re nerf SKs, I am not sure I would stick around.
Levatino wrote: This is a SK misdirecting. Sk has been blurred into something it was never meant to be. A tank/healer/dps. They can do all 3 effectively in bg. They can actually take all 3 in parse and even take the 4th damage taken. They recieved dps and heal love over the years. Then the tower shield add and now the mit armor of the warrior, and the multi mob enc agro that no other class in the game can even come close to. I hope they get nerfed. I hope its big. Balance requires it. This isn't a tilt in the scale as many SK's would like you to believe. Its a tipped over scale and alot of tanks have rolled off the table.
Holy necro post batman.... oh the irony in the first sentence hehe.... All classes got lovin, and hands down this expansion belongs to the Zerker... possibly the Brawler hehe
Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote: Aye zerkers are insane at 90 atm far more than a sk yet do you see any zerker needs to be nerfed posts ?
asaron wrote: The problem is that the masses really don't know jack and they are still stuck in TSO. Give them till next xpac to realize the changes that are in this xpac. Meanwhile the smart ones that play the new upgraded classes are keeping their mouths shut or still pointing at SKs as a scape-goat to keep people distracted. Just gotta hope that SOE will keep ignoring the morons. BTW you mention Zerks and Brawlers.....even you guys forget to mention how solid Paladins are right now. Best agro, DPS just as much as SKs, oh and take less damage while healing like a half healer. But, like I said way too many people are just ignorant and can't see the way things are until it is 10 miles past them.
Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote: Yep, it just takes a while for things to start showing the trend. I know a lot of people that have started up Paladins or have dusted off their Zerkers. Heck even a couple top Guards are dusting off their Zerks to make the switch back.
